Ghostavo:
Ghostavo: Except for miracles, God doesn't circumvent ANY rules. He wrote them. He doesn't even circumvent the relationship between Sin and Death. TrashMan, saying "God did it" is not a simple solution no matter how elegant you try to say it is.
It's like people asking how life began and someone saying "It came from another planet!".
Does it answer the problem? No, it just adds further questions to the problem. Not only does that someone have to explain how life was carried but the first question wasn't answered at all.
By saying "God did it" you not only have to explain how god did it, but still have to explain what he did, further adding questions into a problem that still wasn't solved by saying "God did it".
If you have a problem with Occam's razor, that's fine (sort of...), but looking at where it got us so far I don't see much of a problem with it...
But you see, the Bible has an answer for both. God scooped up dust (the Hebrew word for which is "Adamah," which sounds remarkably like the Hebrew word for Man, "Adam." FYI, it could be seen to mean atoms, molecules, etc.) formed Man from it, and "breathed" life into Man. (notice here also, the Hebrew word for "Breath" is strikingly similar to the words for "soul" and "wind" and "air." Thus one could infer that God gave Man a piece of His own soul, which allows for sentience, intelligence, morality, and a great many other things Humans have that are exhibited by no other species on this big blue marble.) So there you go! That's how life came to be. Again, it matters not in the big scheme of things.
I was using abiogenesis as an analogy. But if you insist...
Those descriptions do jack **** to describe how life was formed nor do they describe what was done, merely the end product (see the point?). Therefore, logically, they are as valid as the previous "Giants piss from the sky to make rain".
Amusingly, if you insist in saying that there can't be something from nothing and then say that god doesn't violate this by saying he has always existed, why can't the same be said for the universe?
Because evidence has shown us that the Universe is expanding at an increasing rate as the years go by. Logically speaking, then, there must have at some point been a time of 0 expansion.
Mefustae:
But you see, the Bible has an answer for both. God scooped up dust (the Hebrew word for which is "Adamah," which sounds remarkably like the Hebrew word for Man, "Adam." FYI, it could be seen to mean atoms, molecules, etc.) formed Man from it, and "breathed" life into Man. (notice here also, the Hebrew word for "Breath" is strikingly similar to the words for "soul" and "wind" and "air." Thus one could infer that God gave Man a piece of His own soul, which allows for sentience, intelligence, morality, and a great many other things Humans have that are exhibited by no other species on this big blue marble.) So there you go! That's how life came to be. Again, it matters not in the big scheme of things.
Okay, God created us. But he created us wrong. We're prideful, we're violent, aggressive, brash. We wage war with our brothers as easily as we breathe, and we capable of evils far too dark to even imagine. Yep, God cocked up. Does God clean up his mistake? Nope. All the power of the universe, and he couldn't be stuffed. Does he take responsibility for the things he's created? Nope. All the power in the universe and he can't make a loaf of bread for a starving child in Ethiopia.
Logically, we're looking at two options: God doesn't exist, or God exists but is a total jerk. Any way you look at the situation right now, you come down to those options.
Not true at all! Pride was something that was added after the fact. It was the Serpent in the Garden of Eden that first suggested to Man that "If you eat of this tree which God has told you not to eat of, you will be like gods!" Pride was first present in Satan, not in Man. God didn't make the mistake. We did. And as far as "cleaning it up," what should He do? Set back the clock and pretend nothing ever happened? What's to keep it from happening again, and again, and again, and again? We would never learn from
our mistake. Instead, He sends Christ to pay for our mistake. He judges us, and then serves our sentence Himself. As for starving children in Ethiopia, again, our mistake. "It is by human avarice or human stupidity, not by the churlishness of nature, that we have poverty and overwork."
--CS Lewis, The Problem of Pain
Here's something else he has to say on the subject: "If the universe is so bad...how on earth did human beings ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator?"
Karajorma: 500 people witnessed Christ resurrected. The books in the Bible were written in the same time period as the events were happening. Many people who were alive in the time of Jesus read the Gospels. All the people who were alive at the time and saw these events with their own eyes. Many wrote about them. If the content of the books were false, I doubt very much that they would have ever gotten off of the ground due to public outcry. I really don't know enough about the history to say much more than that, though, I'm afraid.
Trashman's correct. God gave us free will. Steel Prophet, one such reason He did so is because He wanted something greater than a bunch of toys that moved when He pulled the strings. He wanted creatures that flocked to Him of their own power. Because of this free will, Man can be incredibly good or incredibly evil. We failed Him, yet He still loved us and thus sent Christ to redeem us. God knew the risks, and was willing to take them. We can take it most assuredly that it was worth it, because God did. To argue with that would be to argue with the very source of your power to reason.
Oh believe me, God is not neglectful. A day is coming when all of humanity except those who have been made clean in the blood of the Lamb will feel the full bearing of God's wrath. The children will be punished for their bad behavior. But when that day comes, it will be a total removal of any mystery that God exists. At that point, saying you believe in Him would be like saying you'd like to have a seat when you're no longer capable of standing. It would be like waiting until the end of a war to start fighting, because you want to make sure you pick the winning side. I don't think too highly of preaching about doom and gloom rather than hope and love, but this is my motivation for doing this. I don't want you to face that day with "oh crap, I was wrong!" in your head. Also, I guess that doesn't defeat my purpose. The hope and love aspect comes in to play in that you can sidestep all of that entirely.
