[IPAndrews]

All religions should be wiped off the face of the earth. The word of god has been a convenient excuse for mistreating your fellow man for far too long.

[jr2]

Being perfect matters not to tyrants...

Point out where I said anyone needed to be 'perfect'? All i'm saying is that it'd be a lot easier to gain support and make a difference against this sort of thing if Iran (or whatever) couldn't instantly turn around and say "well you still execute people by the electric chair!" etc. This isn't about one single issue, it's about cleaning up the **** in your own backyard before *****ing to the neighbor about how crappy his place looks.

All religions should be wiped off the face of the earth. The word of god has been a convenient excuse for mistreating your fellow man for far too long.

Amen to that, brother.

Heh... don't worry, you get your chance... all 7 years of it.  But it will be one religion, not none.  And you will like it.  Or die.  Of course, you could always become a Christian, even during that time, then at least you'd go to Heaven when you died.  But I digress.  EDIT: I'm speaking of the rule of the Anti-Christ here, just in case you aren't well-read.

All religions should be wiped off the face of the earth. The word of god has been a convenient excuse for mistreating your fellow man for far too long.

BTW... have you ever considered the fact that you have now officially spouted hate speech?  Chew on that for a little.    Or did you mean doing that non-violently?  Because that would be impossible.  And, even with violence, it would still be impossible. 

And, don't deceive yourself.  If there was no religion, people would kill each other just because.  Using religion is man's way of trying to excuse his heinous crime of hating his brother.  Take away one excuse, they'll just use another.

The reason for the anti-US sentiment is because it's pretty obvious what this is REALLY all about.

How come no one is having a go at other countries in the world which are equally brutal. For that matter, how come no one is mentioning Saudi Arabia?

I don't know, but I'd really like to see those countries have a chance to feel a US (and/or other allied nations) boot in their butt.. they need it.  I guess because the citizens of most countries (including ours) are too lazy and indifferent to care about the suffering of their fellow man if it doesn't threaten them.

This is the exact same **** that happened before the invasion of Iraq and I can't believe anyone would be gullible enough to fall for it a second time.

[IPAndrews]

BTW... have you ever considered the fact that you have now officially spouted hate speech? Chew on that for a little. 

Yes I hate all religions and what they have done to the world and given 10 minutes and a history book I could persuade you to think the same way. When you're right, it's not difficult to defend your position.

Or did you mean doing that non-violently?  Because that would be impossible.

Don't be ridiculous. Have you ever tried talking someone out of a religion? It's far from impossible. If someone can be persuaded to believe in something as stupid as a religion they can easily be convinced of the bloody obvious truth. The real problem are those people who believe in a religion as a convenience to allow themselves to either avoid certain truths or behave in a certain way. But therapy or jail does for them.

Be glad I do not rule the world. It would make a good omelette, but boy would I break some eggs.

[Mongoose]

All religions should be wiped off the face of the earth. The word of god has been a convenient excuse for mistreating your fellow man for far too long.

Yes, because "love thy enemy" is the most dangerous doctrine ever conceived.

[IPAndrews]

Yes, because "love thy enemy" is the most dangerous doctrine ever conceived.

Reality is fun. Pay it a visit one day.

[TrashMan]

Yes, but religion makes it so much easier to find support for hate, to separate people. There's no denying that hardliners will always find a way to hate people, and it will always be in humanity's nature to destroy itself. However, by taking away such a provocative reason as religion as a way of dividing humanity, it'd be much harder to drum up popular support among the dim-witted and ignorant: The first people to march to war. Effectively, you'd be taking the megaphones off the crazies, which I believe will make the world a much calmer, more rational place to live our lives.

  in your dreams. Taking away religion would do nothing to minimize wars and brutality. Actually, it would probably have the OPPOSITE effect.

[TrashMan]

Don't be ridiculous. Have you ever tried talking someone out of a religion? It's far from impossible. If someone can be persuaded to believe in something as stupid as a religion they can easily be convinced of the bloody obvious truth. The real problem are those people who believe in a religion as a convenience to allow themselves to either avoid certain truths or behave in a certain way. But therapy or jail does for them.

Be glad I do not rule the world. It would make a good omelette, but boy would I break some eggs.

Don't be ridiculous. Have you ever tried talking someone out of atheism? It's far from impossible. If someone can be persuaded to believe in something as stupid as atheism they can easily be convinced of the bloody obvious truth. The real problem are those people who believe in atheism as a convenience to allow themselves to either avoid certain truths or behave in a certain way. But therapy or jail does for them.

Be sad I do not rule the world. It would make a good omelette, with some jerky.

[achtung]

Removing religion would remove a reason to hate someone.  It would remove one of the idealogical differences between us all.

A world without any of the current organized religions, while eliminating some of the good sides of the doctrines in them, would eliminate the massive downsides.

[Mongoose]

Reality is fun. Pay it a visit one day.

I live in it, last time I checked.  And I happen to know quite a number deeply religious people who also live in it.  Funny, though; I don't recall any of them ever threatening violence against another group of people, or taking up arms against those who live a different lifestyle, or acting as a detriment to global society, or doing anything more heinous than cursing at their televisions during a sporting event.  Wonder why that is.

Have many atrocities been committed over the course of humanity's history in the name of "religion"? Yes.  Are there still groups of people today that use their "beliefs" to justify horrific actions?  Of course.  Were/are these groups in any way representative of the core values and fundamental principles of their respective faiths?  Overwhelmingly, not in the least.  Would we have seen and continue to see such violence were religion to have never existed in the first place?  Undoubtedly.  The good old "hurhurreligionisebilletsbanit" argument is every bit as deluded as those who believe that strapping TNT and nails onto their chests will garner them a bunch of hot chicks.

[Mefustae]

Undoubtedly.  The good old "hurhurreligionisebilletsbanit" argument is every bit as deluded as those who believe that strapping TNT and nails onto their chests will garner them a bunch of hot chicks.

Yes, theorizing that the world would be a calmer place without institutionalized religion is so much like suicide bombing. I can't believe I never saw the connection before now!

[karajorma]

oi! you two. Go to the *****-alert! thread instead.

You'd even be on topic there.

[vyper]

Removing religion would remove a reason to love someone

Are you honestly saying you need religion as a motivation to love? I've never believed in god in my life, and I've loved. Painfully sometimes as well as passionately.

[Mars]

Removing religion would remove a reason to hate someone.  It would remove one of the idealogical differences between us all.

A world without any of the current organized religions, while eliminating some of the good sides of the doctrines in them, would eliminate the massive downsides.

People are made to hate other groups of people, it's genetic. (I can't back this up, but I think it's pretty clear)

[TrashMan]

Removing religion would remove ANOTHER reason to love someone

Are you honestly saying you need religion as a motivation to love? I've never believed in god in my life, and I've loved. Painfully sometimes as well as passionately.

fixored

[Bobboau]

it would also remove a reason to HATE someone.

[Flipside]

Removing religion would remove a reason to hate someone.  It would remove one of the idealogical differences between us all.

A world without any of the current organized religions, while eliminating some of the good sides of the doctrines in them, would eliminate the massive downsides.

People are made to hate other groups of people, it's genetic. (I can't back this up, but I think it's pretty clear)

Not genetic, social, the Romans were, for example, fine with Egyptian Religion and with African ethnicity, yet the had big problems with Christians for a while, as well as with other mediterranean races. It's all about what it is suitable to hate at the time. As Kara mentioned about Saudi Arabia, and Nuclear correctly answered, it's all about what we get from them, not what they do to each other.

[Mars]

It's social, but our sociality is in itself part of being human, and all aspects related to that human socialness are therefore part of being human. Orangutans are social, but they rarely kill each other

[Flipside]

Thing is, fear of the unknown is a genetic trait, that much is certain, Orangutans, as you say, rarely attack or kill each other, but if a member of another 'group' of Orangutans enters their territory, it's a whole other matter, that's the genetic side at work.

The problem is, however, social as well, for example, in the UK we have 15-year olds committing racially motivated attacks against Africans and Asians, now both races have been a pretty common sight in the UK, particuarly London for about 20 years, so they aren't 'unknown' to a 15 year-old, they've been seeing and interacting with other races all their lives, the motivation there is Parents, Peers and Media. Orangutans may attack other groups that enter their territory, but they don't teach their children to hate the group on the other side of the hill, they simply don't care about them unless there's a territorial problem, and then it is fear that motivates their actions more than Social conditioning. Though, to be perfectly fair, in the case of Primates, there may be more to it than that.

Also it needs to be borne in mind that if Orangutans had guns instead of fists, they'd probably kill a lot more of each other.

[achtung]

Removing religion would not solve ALL problems, but it would remove a major barrier between people.

[karajorma]

I'm going to split the removing religion part of the thread cause it's worth a separate discussion on its own.


As for whether removing religion would make the world better, I'm in two minds on that one. There are a lot of people who don't act like dickheads because they're worried about what will happen to them in the afterlife. It's pretty hard to tell if removing that incentive would thus make them think that they had carte blanche to generally act like pricks to each other.

Religion gives a lot of people an excuse to act like total wankers. But would people like Fred Phelps be less of a wanker without religion? Maybe. Maybe without the ability to have rock hard certainty that he's correct thanks to his faith he'd have to check whether he is actually correct. On the other hand you can see what cocksucker he is when he professes to believe in the bible and the message of Jesus. Maybe without all the stuff about being nice to people in there he'd be like that to everybody rather than simply picking a random group.

So I'm not going to say that removing religion would make the world a better place. It might. It might make it worse.