[karajorma]

@Kara - The Manson Family?

Somehow I think that Trashman would have even more of a problem with that definition.

Religion is Faith-based, Atheism is Evidence-based, I suppose you could theoretically say that Atheism is a Cult based on their faith that God does not exist, however, I think that would be stretching the term a little.

Strong atheism starts with the fact that gods are a logical impossibility and therefore can't exist. That's not a faith based position and you'd be hugely stretching the point to claim that it was as you say.

Weak atheism says that there's simply no proof of gods and therefore you might as well act like they don't exist until proof is found.

Absolutely no faith involved there at all. To claim that there is faith involved is not even stretching the point. It's a complete misunderstanding of what weak atheism is.

[Flipside]

I suppose that Faith is really another face of Hope, it's not identical, but very few individuals have done something in the faith that something bad would happen to them for doing it.

Most Religion is based on the idea of a reward after you die, or a punishment, Atheism believes neither, so cannot really be counted a Religious belief.

I suppose what is so blood chillingly terrifying is not Religion itself, it's the possiblities it represents. Whatever happens after you die is, according to the Church, eternal, and it is also they who dictate what God thinks, and where the up and down buttons are in the lift. Gods thoughts may be pure, but you can be damn certain that not every person who has dictated Church, and therefore Gods, policies over the years has been. Personally, I think as far as eternity is concerned, I'd rather trust myself than a man in a funny hat.

[TrashMan]

Strange...there are many cults that don't have any real religion bases (like, the cult that believes we were created by aliens and they will come to teach us transcendence)..or at least they have been called cults.
Either the definiton of cult needs changing or a lot of people don't know what the heck it means.

Does the cult have to involve some diety or is some common philosophy enough? But by that definition everything would be a cult.. pfft..look at us..arguing semantics.

[karajorma]

Strange...there are many cults that don't have any real religion bases (like, the cult that believes we were created by aliens and they will come to teach us transcendence)..or at least they have been called cults.

That's simply religion by another name really though. Instead of a faith in divine beings the faith is in super-intelligent aliens instead.


It's pretty obvious that the original comment mentioning cults was about religious cults anyway.

[vyper]

I'm curious about what you consider a real "religious base" to be Trashman.

[Mefustae]

Does the cult have to involve some diety or is some common philosophy enough? But by that definition everything would be a cult.. pfft..look at us..arguing semantics.

Heh, you're the only one arguing semantics mate!

[Edward Bradshaw]

Atheism is also a cult then.

Based on which definition?

I suppose that Faith is really another face of Hope, it's not identical, but very few individuals have done something in the faith that something bad would happen to them for doing it.

Faith is different to hope in that faith is believing something you hope to be true, while hope is merely wanting it to be true or to come true. Evidence is irrelevant to faith.

[karajorma]

Trashman wishing on a star.

[jr2]

There are no religious beliefs involved in atheism. That's what the term means. On top of which there are lots of followers which would make it a religion even if we believed the nonsense you were spouting.

As for early Christianity when you have 12 followers and one man who says he's the son of God what the **** is it if not a cult?

Eh, let's see... the fact that He proved it.

OK, and, let's define a theism - the belief, or faith, that there is not God.

# S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny) "he lost his faith but not his morality"

So, it's sort of an a-religion, just like -1 is still a number.

[karajorma]

Eh, let's see... the fact that He proved it.

So proof is required? So Hinduism is also proved then?

And besides Jesus didn't prove it until the marriage at Cana which if I recall was after he had assembled his disciples.

OK, and, let's define a theism - the belief, or faith, that there is not God.

Let's not cause it's a load of bollocks.

Atheism is a lack of faith. To define it as a faith that there isn't a God is a strawman. It's not a belief at all. It's not like -1 it's more like NaN.

[jr2]

What do you mean, atheism isn't a faith?  It isn't a belief???  OK, then what is it?  A theory?  No.  I do suppose it should be allowed that atheism isn't a religious faith, but it is a faith nonetheless, and the fervor of atheists matches or exceeds those of the religious.

[Flipside]

You cannot have a religion that has a doctrine of 'There is no Religion', it might work with Spoons in the Matrix, but doesn't work with Churches. You cannot have a 'Church of Atheism', it would be an oxymoron.

Atheism is more of a Society than a Cult, and, as was mentioned earlier, don't get confused between the 'TV' presentation of cults and the reality of them, they don't go around drinking goats blood or committing ritual suicide, at least, apart from a few tragic cases. Strictly speaking the Scouts is a Cult, it is religion based, accepts from a select demographic and has specific, self-based rituals. That doesn't make the Scouts evil, it just makes them the Scouts.

[karajorma]

What do you mean, atheism isn't a faith?  It isn't a belief???  OK, then what is it?  A theory?  No.  I do suppose it should be allowed that atheism isn't a religious faith, but it is a faith nonetheless, and the fervor of atheists matches or exceeds those of the religious.

Sorry but you're wrong again.

Faith is the belief in something despite a lack of evidence. Atheism is the very antithesis of this point of view. Atheism says don't have faith in anything, act upon only that which there is evidence for.


Let me put it this way. Do you have faith you aren't a Martian? Or is it simply that the evidence you are one is non-existent while the evidence you are Terran is plentiful?

[castor]

Atheism, by definition, is not a religion. But great many "atheists" fail to implement it according to the definition, the result being something that is based mostly on faith (unconsciously).

[karajorma]

Clarify that please.

[Flipside]

I think he means that a lot of Atheists are closet Spiritualists, which is probably pretty accurate, for some reason, a lot of people I meet seem to think that Atheist simply means 'Not belonging to a major religion'.

[IPAndrews]

Religion rules. I am now religious. I have an "I love jesus" bumper sticker for my car, and I hate homosexuals. I am also a troll.

[Flipside]

Trolls can't regenerate flame damage.....

[IPAndrews]

I am wearing "don't give a ****" plated armour. Which gives me +10 flame resistance but with a penalty of -10 for giving a ****.

[Flipside]

I would respond with yet more Warhammer references, but then I'd be spamming the thread too

Back on Topic, someone asked about Scientology earlier, I think you'll find that it IS a religion because it relies on Faith for the stuff about Xenu, there's no evidence, so it's a Religion.