[IPAndrews]

Sorry Kara but I don't want to modify TBP further after TBP 3.4. So any change to SCP that requires changes to TBP (such as doing something with the Enable features for The Babylon Project flag) is effectively a decision by the SCP team to drop support for TBP.

[jr2]

I thought 3.4b was final?    So anything to modify TBP after that would have to be made by someone who was willing to take up the continuation of modifying TBP, right?  (eg, putting normal maps in TBP if they aren't already there.)  Or did I miss something here?

[IPAndrews]

I think you've missed something. I'm pretty sure that's what I just said. 

[jr2]

Well, that's not unusual, and I've got a head cold.    So processing right now is a little flaky.

[IPAndrews]

While I am here.

Anyone interested in this thread please also read this thread:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50861.0.html

[karajorma]

Sorry Kara but I don't want to modify TBP further after TBP 3.4. So any change to SCP that requires changes to TBP (such as doing something with the Enable features for The Babylon Project flag) is effectively a decision by the SCP team to drop support for TBP.

To be honest I'd prefer to get rid of the flag completely but if this the last ever release we can simply unbundle the options while leaving the option to turn them on via the flag. Then we'd simply remove the -tbp flag from being one of the ones that is selectable in the launcher. It would become one of the ones you selected by typing it into custom flags (Like no_emissive_light or -ambient_factor).

That should pretty much remove the problem of people accidentally selecting it while also allowing other mods to use the special TBP features without needing them all.

[IPAndrews]

As I understood it FS2 and it's various mods have installers which set the correct flags. So there is no real need to fiddle with them. In addition anyone who turns on a flag entitled Features for The Babylon Project in the launcher, is an idiot. I would imagine there are a small number of those playing FS2 since it seems to attract a more intelligent audience. There are on the other hand a large number of TBP players out there (albeit quiet ones). I believe it would be a shame to inconvenience the large number of TBP players (compared to the small number of idots) with having to fiddle around setting command line parameters if they want to upgrade to a new version of SCP. Don't get me wrong I appreciate the principle behind getting rid of the flag entirely, and agree with it, but in this case I think the cons outweigh the pros.

That said, it's your engine so do as you will. The game engine builds you gave us do a fabulous job too. So if you guys drop support for TBP in the future (which strikes me as quite likely in some form or other) then it's not the end of the world. Thanks mate.

[jr2]

Umm... *probes around for a solution agreeable to both parties*  How about making it available as a FRED mission flag?  Then just add the flag to all the missions (sounds easy enough, I'll do it if no one else will... then you can unbundle the options, but have the FRED flag be a master switch.  Or how about a launcher6.ini entry?  That way, all future engines will see the option in \The Babylon Project\launcher6.ini , as long as the correct launcher6.ini is included with the final TBP.  If there is a common solution to be found, now is the time (before the "final (no really final)" edition is out.  XD  Whaddya guys think?

[karajorma]

It never wouldn't have been a launcher6.ini switch jr2.

As I understood it FS2 and it's various mods have installers which set the correct flags. So there is no real need to fiddle with them. In addition anyone who turns on a flag entitled Features for The Babylon Project in the launcher, is an idiot. I would imagine there are a small number of those playing FS2 since it seems to attract a more intelligent audience. There are on the other hand a large number of TBP players out there (albeit quiet ones). I believe it would be a shame to inconvenience the large number of TBP players (compared to the small number of idots) with having to fiddle around setting command line parameters if they want to upgrade to a new version of SCP.

The way FSO currently works the only time you need to actually set the flag is if you've deleted the launcher6.ini file. That's true even if you upgrade the build. So hiding the flag shouldn't have any real effect on your users.

Furthermore when someone does delete their launcher6.ini I usually say something like "Cut and paste this line into launcher->Features->Custom Flags. -spec -glow -env -jpgtga -mipmap -nomotiondebris -missile_lighting -targetinfo -ship_choice_3d -3dwarp -tbp -snd_preload -no_set_gamma -window  -ambient_factor 65 and it will rebuild your ini file for you"

That wouldn't change.


That said it does balance out to making things a tiny bit more difficult for normal users who run into an uncommon problem vs a tiny bit easier for idiots. So given that it's probably not worth the effort of hiding the flag. I'll still be unbundling the features to table entries though so that people who want to use them on other mods can as well.

If at a later stage someone else wants to take up development of TBP I'll remove the flag then. 

[IPAndrews]

How about making it available as a FRED mission flag?  Then just add the flag to all the missions

 

[karajorma]

Yes, I did notice that. It would actually be more work than simply adding it to the tables

[jr2]

sounds easy enough, I'll do it if no one else will... then you can unbundle the options, but have the FRED flag be a master switch.

It can't be that hard... XD

I once had to work on a Mac, converting uncompressed .TIFF images to HQ compressed .TIFF  A whole CD full of clipart.  Took me 1-2 hours, but I did it.  And no, I didn't have some version of IrfanView on the compy... It was all File-Open-Save As. 

[karajorma]

It's not hard. It's just not smart. An AI profiles table switch would have the same effect in about 20 seconds of editing.