[Colonol Dekker]

Did anyone here read the Higaaran history book which came with Homeworld 1? (that chronicles the whole discovery--> construction thing) There was a section quoting two generals/admirals discussing strategy like this IIRC

[Fearless Leader]

Did anyone here read the Higaaran history book which came with Homeworld 1? (that chronicles the whole discovery--> construction thing) There was a section quoting two generals/admirals discussing strategy like this IIRC

and in the end whoever won let whatever planet it was called get glassed. So I wouldnt take advise from either of them.

One because his strategy failed, the other because he eventually accepted a  flawed idea.

[Colonol Dekker]

No not the missiles thing, i should have said "With relation to the topic title" in retyrospect.

[AlphaOne]

i believe along the way people has lost the whole idea i was discussing! Im not talking about uber ships of doom popping out everiwhee or crazy deployable mesons superboms or anithing so extravagant! I'm talking about pure theoretical strategies while using 2 different aproaches to acompli the same thing! both have theyr pro's and con's so its not like any one of them is perfect however having a jack of all trades is no longer a perfect option not for the GTVA they already did that and look what it got them. sure they may not of had any choice in the matter either way but i believe using some refined tactics the shivans could of sustained much more heavy losses then the GTVA.


The GTVA doesnt actualy need to win anithing they just have to cause so much damage to the shivans that it would be too expensive for the shivans to completely destroy the GTVA.


Just imagine a group of a dozen or so Iceni's packed in an square facing a Sath overloading they beam cannons in order to gain the superior range. Then imagine all those oveloaded beam cannons opening fire on the blasted Sath. Can onyone say Sath is for dinner today boys??

Faster more mobile warships can be deployed much much faster then normal ones. They are more adept at dodging bullets so to speak while delivering huge amounts of damage with theyr superior numbers.

However it is also true the same thing can be acomplished by massive warships since they can withstand the damage much better. They are ships that can really be used in many circumstances but mostry when you have a prelonged battle and you need superior armour to hold the line. I believe the GTVA would be much better of if they concentrated theyr fleets around Colossus size warships with the colossus beeing the focal poin and the fast more mobile ships which should acount for about 75% of its fleet with the rest of 25% heavy warships.

[ChronoReverse]

How can anything be too expensive for the Shivans?  The can send an endless rain of Sathanas O_o.

[Marcus Vesper]

We have no conception of how the Shivans view industry, warfare, loss of ships, etc.  Fighting a war of attrition might work if you're battling a reasonable foe, but "reasonable" and "Shivan"?  We have no idea how a reasonable Shivan would act.

[TrashMan]

No matter how strong their industry is it's not unlimited. Tehri numbers aren't endless.


Theoreticly, if you managed to put enough hurt on them they might reconsider their approach. Immaginve every single node in Allied space blockaded by 40 RBC and a decent-sized fleet, all neatly parked to rape whatever comes trough the node.

Eventually the shivans would wear done the defenses but just think of the loses tehy would sustain to gain a SINGLE node.

[Snail]

The Shivans would get pissed off if you started a war of attrition, and then decide to scrap all their Saths and sortie their radical suicide bombers!

[TrashMan]

Let them come!

I love the smell of mesons in the morning!

[Snail]

They'd bomb your government buildings and assassinate your presidents with their undercover agents!!

[TrashMan]

You're right.

We would never notice those huge, 5 legged, compund glowing eyes monstrosities in our vicinity. Tehy are so redicly different that everyone would think they are halucinating and would just ignore them...untill it's too late!

[Snail]

Yes. You can't just go around arresting every single guy in the GTVA who looks like he's got 5 legs and compound eyes now, can we?

I guess the GTVA is in quite a pickle.

[General Battuta]

Actually, odds are the Shivans are a post-scarcity society.

It's quite possible that they have such enormous command of technology that they can produce unlimited quantities of matter and technology. They're not limited by what we consider 'industry', or even the need to produce natural resources - they can use femtotech fabrication, or maybe even some kind of subspace power.

Their tactics, which seem to totally disregard losses, support this suggestion.

It's possible that they literally can make ships faster than we can kill them. There's no way we can disprove it.

[ZmaN]

that HAS to be a valid point!

[TrashMan]

Actually, odds are the Shivans are a post-scarcity society.

It's quite possible that they have such enormous command of technology that they can produce unlimited quantities of matter and technology. They're not limited by what we consider 'industry', or even the need to produce natural resources - they can use femtotech fabrication, or maybe even some kind of subspace power.

Their tactics, which seem to totally disregard losses, support this suggestion.

It's possible that they literally can make ships faster than we can kill them. There's no way we can disprove it.

 

There is no such thing as "unlimited quantities" of anything.

While their tech is impressive, their ships are clearly products of similar fabrication techinuqes as the Terran or Vasudan ones, or else we wouldn't be abel to retrofit them so easily or slap our weapons in them.
They aren't grown or"2replicated" or any such crap.

[Snail]

The reverse engineered ships don't have any Shivan technology. The engines and weapons are all Terran, not Shivan. It seems to me they just tore out the insides and smacked on some Terran tech.

[BengalTiger]

It's possible that they literally can make ships faster than we can kill them. There's no way we can disprove it.

So guess it's time to find whoever else lives in the Milky Way, and make as many allies as possible.

Returning to the topic:
There's room for both a fleet of smaller ships (usefull for patrols and surprise attacks from safe directions) and a few larger ones in the battlegroup (these would be fire support in larger battles).
It won't be as numerous as a task force made fully of small units, but thanks to the capships there will be room for many fighters (the only field where the GTVA fights Shivans more less as equals untill overrun) and some serious firepower.
From a tactical point of view:
The fleet should not be concentrated around anything, except the ships in action (ie. the corvette that got ambushed should automatically get everyone's available escorts untill it can jump out to safety).
There also must be many supply and repair ships among the fleet, to keep as many of the ships in action as possible.

[TrashMan]

The reverse engineered ships don't have any Shivan technology. The engines and weapons are all Terran, not Shivan. It seems to me they just tore out the insides and smacked on some Terran tech.

IIRC, the terran Maraonly had problem with shivan weaponry, and it's is said ot handle better than the shivan original.. Obviously they didn't jsut gut it.

There also must be many supply and repair ships among the fleet, to keep as many of the ships in action as possible.

But I agree on ressuply and repair ships. the GTVA would need em..That's why I was making the big one...which reminds me..gotta finish it one of these days..

[Snail]

IIRC, the terran Maraonly had problem with shivan weaponry, and it's is said ot handle better than the shivan original.. Obviously they didn't jsut gut it.

It had a Terran thruster. Doesn't seem to me like that's Shivan tech. It was probably just some super expensive stuff they threw in to make it better.

[TrashMan]

It has a terran thruster becosue it is in the table under Terran ships...pfft.

F'course they had problems with getting everything t owork on such a short nocie. Don't forget jsut how long the Great War and hte Second Great War lasted.