[Nuke]

i think the point is that survival is a non issue with modern humans. survivals practically a gaurantee in the wealthy parts of the wrold. even the bums on the street in the poorest american citys will breed (mainly because they know child = welfare = free money). few people recall darwin's theory of sexual selection, which is accurate when survival is certain. social aptitude is far more important as far as breeding goes. so in a future wrold everyone will be hot as hell, but they will have the brains of a doorknob.

all the more reason to agree with the shooter

[Kosh]

i wonder how many of theese shootings would be avoided if we would just leegalize suicide

Suicide isn't legal? Even if it isn't, does it really matter? What are they going to do, haul your mangled corpse into the courtroom and try you for comitting suicide, then send your corpse to jail?

[Mefustae]

i wonder how many of theese shootings would be avoided if we would just leegalize suicide

Suicide isn't legal? Even if it isn't, does it really matter? What are they going to do, haul your mangled corpse into the courtroom and try you for comitting suicide, then send your corpse to jail?

I think he means assisted suicide. State- or medically-assisted suicide, or even just assisting the act in general, is currently universally illegal.

[Nuke]

anybody can put a gun to their head and pull a trigger, not everyone will die from it. there have been cases where failed suicide victims have been, blinded, mutilated, maimed, or rendered brain dead. killing a human being isnt as easy as one would believe. theres really no reliable way to cause a human death and have it work every time. plus those who are in a suicidal state are not in the best position to think about how to succeed in suicide. there is practically no support for those who wish to kill themselves. i think it should be an option for the extremely mentally ill as well as the terminally ill and perhaps even criminals (one might perfer to die than to live a life sentance for example). i dont think the assistance should perform the suicide, rather just provide reliable means what wont cause more problems in the process.

[Kosh]

theres really no reliable way to cause a human death and have it work every time.

So jumping off the top floor of the empire state building without a parachute wouldn't kill someone?

[Mika]

Regarding capital punishment, I don't think it should be seen as a punishment if it is done correctly (there is no pain), it is more like relieving the society from that particular individual and nothing more.

About the natural selection, I don't buy it that human would have evolved above it. If the future will develop individuals that look really hot, but at the same time reduce the brain mass, it will be them that will die when the conditions change (environment, war, disease, whatever). This is because they will be using too much energy on trying to look good while the persons who have kept their brain mass will use it to get through the difficult time. Besides, isn't the immunic response of the human being going downwards all the time?

I'll post some more of this later.

[TrashMan]

theres really no reliable way to cause a human death and have it work every time.

So jumping off the top floor of the empire state building without a parachute wouldn't kill someone?

It may sound redicilous but there is a slim chance he just might survive.

[castor]

And its not exactly practical, and perhaps a bit rude towards other people 

[karajorma]

theres really no reliable way to cause a human death and have it work every time.

So jumping off the top floor of the empire state building without a parachute wouldn't kill someone?

Flight Sergeant Nick Alkemade (died June 22, 1987) was a tail gunner for an Royal Air Force Avro Lancaster Bomber during World War II who survived a fall of 18,045 feet (5500 meters) without a parachute after his plane was shot down over Germany.

On March 23, 1944, Alkemade's plane was flying near Berlin, Germany, when it was attacked by a Luftwaffe Junkers Ju 88 fighter plane, caught fire and began to spiral out of control. Because his parachute was in the cabin, Alkemade opted to jump from the aircraft, preferring his death to be quick.

Alkemade fell 18,045 feet (5500 meters) to the ground below. His fall was broken by pine trees and a soft snow cover on the ground. He was able to move his arms and legs and suffered only a sprained leg.

On 3 January 1943 Magee's B-17 was on a daylight bombing run over Saint-Nazaire, France when German fighters shot off a section of the right wing causing the aircraft to enter a deadly spin. This was Magee's seventh mission.

Magee was wounded in the attack but managed to escape from the ball turret. Unfortunately, his parachute had been damaged and rendered useless by the attack, so having no choice, he leapt from the plane without a parachute, rapidly losing consciousness due to the altitude.

Magee fell over four miles before crashing through the glass roof of the St. Nazaire railroad station. Somehow the glass roof cushioned Magee's impact and rescuers found him still alive on the floor of the station.

Lieutenant I. M. Chisov of the former Soviet Union was flying his Ilyushin 4 on a bitter cold day in January 1942, when it was attacked by 12 German Messerschmitts.  Convinced that he had no chance of surviving if he staged with his badly battered plane, Chisov bailed out at 21,980 feet.  With the fighters still buzzing around, Chisov cleverly decided to fall freely out of the arena.  It was his plan not to open his chute until he was down to only 1000 ft above the ground.  Unfortunately, he lost consciousness en route.  As luck would have it, he crashed at the edge of a steep ravine covered with 3 ft of snow.  Hitting at about 120 mi/h, he plowed along its slope until he came to rest at the bottom.  Chisov awoke 20 min later, bruised and sore, but miraclously he had suffered only a concussion of the spine and a fractured pelvis.  Three and one-half months later he was back at work as a flight instructor.

If they all could survive much longer drops then let's not make any assumptions about falling off a tall building. Especially considering the way that skyscrapers tend to have all kinds of effects on the wind.

[Nuclear1]

Thing is though, kara, that despite the ridiculously high altitudes, all of those people were cushioned through some form or another.  Purely jumping off of the Empire State Building and landing splat on the concrete sidewalk or paved road would most certainly result in a New Yorker's brains being projected across the block.

[redsniper]

but who's to say you wouldn't get lucky and have something cushion your fall in New York? The chances are slim, but so are the chances of surviving a fall from an airplane.

[karajorma]

Thing is though, kara, that despite the ridiculously high altitudes, all of those people were cushioned through some form or another.  Purely jumping off of the Empire State Building and landing splat on the concrete sidewalk or paved road would most certainly result in a New Yorker's brains being projected across the block.

How do you guarantee hitting the sidewalk though?

For a start there is a fair chance that you'll hit someone before the sidewalk. Then there is a chance of being blown into a tree or a variety of other possibilities.

Oh and before we go any further with this conversation, yes it wasn't the top but I think this should be close enough to shut anyone else up.

In 1979, Elvita Adams jumped from the observation platform on the 86th floor of the Empire State Building in an attempt to commit suicide. However Elvita’s attempt was foiled when a sudden gust of wind blew her back onto the 85th floor ledge. A security guard opened the window and pulled her to safety. She escaped with only a broken leg,

Ironically I went looking for that story without realising it was actually from the building in question. Wikipedia has only a short entry on the subject so I'm quoting out of a book I had the story in.

[TrashMan]

Yup. the human body can be incredibly resiliant sometimes...otehr times it can be incredible fragile.
Not to metion otehr factors, such as luck

[Nuke]

considering the top of the empire state building is completely caged i doubt anyone could jump off it. though in new york it would be fairly easy to find a building to jump off of. then again not everyone lives in new york. also one must consider what if you land on something, like a group of children, and what of property damage. if theyre gonna kill themselves they might as well do it under controlled means so as to cause no harm anyone or destroy property, so that they dont become vegetables that society has to pay to keep alive.

[karajorma]

Actually even with the cage people still manage to jump off it. Someone did it this year.

It's not a complete cage. It's still open to air (at least it was when I was there).

[Mefustae]

Flight Sergeant Nick Alkemade (died June 22, 1987)

He died the same day I was born... creepy.

Listen, just so I can pre-empt the inevitable conversation, can we avoid the "if you want to make sure, do this" discussion that this thread seems to be heading for? Far be it for me to stifle an open discussion, but let's not degrade the forum to that level, shall we?

[Nuke]

there was this cool documentary about people who jumped off the golden gate bridge, with actual footage of people jumping, and interviews with a survivor and also families of victims, costgaurd, ect. aparently its a very common place for jumpers. they dont even bother to put up a fence.

Flight Sergeant Nick Alkemade (died June 22, 1987)

He died the same day I was born... creepy.

Listen, just so I can pre-empt the inevitable conversation, can we avoid the "if you want to make sure, do this" discussion that this thread seems to be heading for? Far be it for me to stifle an open discussion, but let's not degrade the forum to that level, shall we?

indeed. most of the ideas people come up with are just urban legend anyway. with little or no factual evidence backing it up. there really is no surefire 100% effective means of suicide. theres always gonna be human error and fear components, also theese people arent thinking clearly. so theres lots that can go wrong.

[Excalibur]

Jumping into an erupting volcano - surely you can't die if you actually succeed in jumping into the lava, and don't get saved by some large gust of wind that somehow blows a human back up onto the ledge.

If there weren't so many people in one area, and you weren't allowed to have a relationship until after 18 and schools had maximum security measures (it seems we're heading that way anyway), then there would be no school shootings, unless they were very smart. (assuming the security is as well)

I don't think you will ever stop suicide.

On a side note, have there been stories of animal suicides? (beside the lemmings that run off cliff tops or whatever)


EDIT:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Do-Animals-Commit-Suicide-63441.shtml


Another issue: Lemmings do not commit suicide! Each 4 years there is a cyclic demographical boom of the lemmings (small arctic rodents) followed by a desperate massive migration during which many die throwing themselves into the rivers, lakes and sea.

It has been regarded as a collective suicide, conscious or involuntary, caused by over-population. In reality, being solitary rodents by nature, when the population booms, the stronger lemmings drive the weaker and younger ones off long before the food is depleted.

The young lemmings disperse in random directions looking for vacant territory. Geographical features constrain their movements and channel them into a relatively narrow corridor and large numbers can build up leading to social friction, distress and eventually a mass panic can follow and they flee in all directions, but they do not deliberately march into the sea; this is just pure fantasy.

     Hopefully humans won't have to do this.

[Nuke]

and elephants engage in butseks.

[Hazaanko]

     Hopefully humans won't have to do this.

Pffff we haven't even started making cities underwater yet...   **goes off dreaming about living in a bubble-city.....