[TrashMan]

But then, is a Yolk a Bird?

Yep. A rather dead bird on your dinner plate usually.

[Flipside]

Heh, that's the thing about abortion, it's really the epitome of the Chicken and the Egg question

[Ghostavo]

But then, is a Yolk a Bird?

Yep. A rather dead bird on your dinner plate usually.

You're kidding? Both of you?

[redsniper]

But then, is a Yolk a Bird?

Bad analogy.
A yolk is a bird as much as an ovum is a person: not at all.
A better question would be, "Is Balut a duck?"

[Flipside]

But then, is a Yolk a Bird?

Yep. A rather dead bird on your dinner plate usually.

You're kidding? Both of you?

Let's just say we weren't aiming at debating the issue

[TrashMan]

Heh, that's the thing about abortion, it's really the epitome of the Chicken and the Egg question

I dunno if I got the point across with my last sentance -  the yolk IS a bid (and a live bird). However, when you see it it's very much dead and on your plate (since in 99% of all cases, thats where you'll see it)

[Agent_Koopa]

The real issue here is: where do we draw the line between bundle of cells and human person with rights? Right now, we draw the line at birth, and late-term abortions are almost universally considered kind of icky. Abortion of a bundle of cells is not infanticide. As Obi-Wan Kenobi so badly worded, "only a Sith deals in absolutes." If you take the standpoint that abortion of the bundle of cells, before development of the brain, before development of the heart is wrong because of that bundle's potential, then every human being on the face of the earth should be having as much sex as possible because every single spermatozoon and ovum that dies is wasted potential.

[Mefustae]

...then every human being on the face of the earth should be having as much sex as possible because every single spermatozoon and ovum that dies is wasted potential.

Every sperm is sacred!!

[achtung]

...then every human being on the face of the earth should be having as much sex as possible because every single spermatozoon and ovum that dies is wasted potential.

Every sperm is sacred!!

The menstrual cycle is a sin!

[Fearless Leader]

The menstrual cycle is a sin!

Yes it is!


In a better world nobody would be able to decide if another person should die or not.
As far as abortions go "this child will have a bad life" is not a good reason. It should be up to that person to decide if life is worth living, if he/she thinks it isnt then he/she are free to end it.... Remarkably very few people decide to try, and those who fail dont always try again.

Reguardless of how you feel, or what your viewpoint is, it will change when you either have a child, or have to make the choice of keeping or aborting a child.
Its easy to talk about it without having to have made the choice.

[TrashMan]

The real issue here is: where do we draw the line between bundle of cells and human person with rights? Right now, we draw the line at birth, and late-term abortions are almost universally considered kind of icky. Abortion of a bundle of cells is not infanticide. As Obi-Wan Kenobi so badly worded, "only a Sith deals in absolutes." If you take the standpoint that abortion of the bundle of cells, before development of the brain, before development of the heart is wrong because of that bundle's potential, then every human being on the face of the earth should be having as much sex as possible because every single spermatozoon and ovum that dies is wasted potential.

Not quite so. A sperm cannot grow into a human. It's not a human, it's the males half of genetic data.
It's not a human..yet. But once a child is concieved, it is 100% human and it grows. We're not talking about potential anymore, it IS human. Just a very early stage human.

Speaking of which, when does the brain begin to form? Should we consider it "alive and human" from that point onward? Is there's some sort of proto-sentience before that?
Would you consider someone that is turned into a vegetable due to a accident a non human then? Since brain no worky anymore? Or someone in a coma?

[vyper]

Heh, that's the thing about abortion, it's really the epitome of the Chicken and the Egg question

I dunno if I got the point across with my last sentance -  the yolk IS a bid (and a live bird). However, when you see it it's very much dead and on your plate (since in 99% of all cases, thats where you'll see it)

Oh... wow.

No you nitwit. It's not a bird. It's an unfertilised egg. Nutrients and just about bugger all else.

[Ghostavo]

I dunno if I got the point across with my last sentance -  the yolk IS a bid (and a live bird). However, when you see it it's very much dead and on your plate (since in 99% of all cases, thats where you'll see it)

You've got to be kidding.

First, the eggs you see on plates and whatnot are not fertilized, meaning they have as much to do with bird as sperm have to do with humans. Secondly, the yolk is not even a living being nor will it ever be unless you count being the food source for the embryo as a life form.

You might as well say the placenta is a mammal.

[vyper]

<insert beaver joke?>

[TrashMan]

First, the eggs you see on plates and whatnot are not fertilized, meaning they have as much to do with bird as sperm have to do with humans. Secondly, the yolk is not even a living being nor will it ever be unless you count being the food source for the embryo as a life form.

Yup, the eggs you see on the plate are dead.

Hold on, the yolk is the yellow stuff? Or is it the white stuff? English ain't my native language so I might have mixed them up.

IIRC, the yellow stuff doesn't need to be fertilized to grow into a chicken (but it needs to be fertilized to end up as a rooster...methinks). Either way to put it, the embrio is alive.

[Ghostavo]

First, the eggs you see on plates and whatnot are not fertilized, meaning they have as much to do with bird as sperm have to do with humans. Secondly, the yolk is not even a living being nor will it ever be unless you count being the food source for the embryo as a life form.

Yup, the eggs you see on the plate are dead.

Hold on, the yolk is the yellow stuff? Or is it the white stuff? English ain't my native language so I might have mixed them up.

IIRC, the yellow stuff doesn't need to be fertilized to grow into a chicken (but it needs to be fertilized to end up as a rooster...methinks). Either way to put it, the embrio is alive.

Yolk is the yellow stuff yes. And the yolk is not the embryo.

And tell me you're kidding about the next bit... seriously...

[TrashMan]

I'm not. Alltough I'm too lazy to check if it's true. Remeber reading about it, but I'm not sure if it was about chicken or some other animal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the white stuff in the egg is what the embryo uses for sustanance.

either way, we are talking about humans here - human embryos. And I fail to see how they don't qualify as alive.

[karajorma]

IIRC, the yellow stuff doesn't need to be fertilized to grow into a chicken (but it needs to be fertilized to end up as a rooster...methinks).

Oh that is just too ****ing funny for words.

Are you seriously telling us that chickens can reproduce asexually to create females but have to reproduce sexually to produce males?

[Ghostavo]

I'm not. Alltough I'm too lazy to check if it's true. Remeber reading about it, but I'm not sure if it was about chicken or some other animal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the white stuff in the egg is what the embryo uses for sustanance.

either way, we are talking about humans here - human embryos. And I fail to see how they don't qualify as alive.

The egg white (white stuff) is not what the embryo uses primarily as a food source, it's the yolk (yellow bit). The egg white is used mostly as shock protection. In short, the yolk is not the embryo.

I agree with the next part, embryos are alive. But that's not the point in the abortion argument. It's if its a human life that matters, and as such alive and alive are diferent adjectives in this case. Just as you don't get arrested for squashing an ant, can you get arrested for killing an embryo? That's the point of the argument.

[TrashMan]

Oh that is just too ****ing funny for words.

Are you seriously telling us that chickens can reproduce asexually to create females but have to reproduce sexually to produce males?

Nah..it was another animal. Can't remember which one it was.

Just as you don't get arrested for squashing an ant, can you get arrested for killing an embryo? That's the point of the argument.

I doubt you'll find many people who love  and respect animals as much as I do, but even I wouldn't put a insect and a human on the same scale or worth.