Author Topic: Terminator suit  (Read 13140 times)

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Offline Mika

  • 28
I thought that with the price of a single suit you could get many small initial response cranes and winches around the place.

To make something clear, I'm not against this research, it would have serious medical applications if it turned out to be working well. But this whole skeleton thing is quite strange if you ask me. As a military application it cannot move much faster than human, it cannot jump much higher than human, it cannot weigh much more than human, and lastly, it cannot cost a lot. On the other hand, there might be some use in the SWAT teams or in the riot police for that system.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I'm not joking about the kangaroo stuff. It is serious, since the kangaroo has quite interesting tendon (in its ankle?) which is quite amazing thing in itself. It stores the energy so well that the animal finds bouncing quite effortless. There would be some use for that kind of synthesized material.

Mika
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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IMO, it's either powered armour or jumping stilts, which in my opinion would be much more useful than an exposed exoskeleton.
Interestingly enough, this signature is none of the following:
A witty remark on whatever sad state of affairs the world may or may not be in
A series of localized forum in-jokes
A clever and self-referential comment on the nature of signatures themselves.

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Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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Quote
As a military application it cannot move much faster than human, it cannot jump much higher than human, it cannot weigh much more than human, and lastly, it cannot cost a lot.


Consider this proof that no one reads my posts :p


Powered armor can make a big difference in the field. And with the US military, cost is seldom a problem.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Fallout. 'Nough said.

 
Quote
As a military application it cannot move much faster than human, it cannot jump much higher than human, it cannot weigh much more than human, and lastly, it cannot cost a lot.


Consider this proof that no one reads my posts :p


Powered armor can make a big difference in the field. And with the US military, cost is seldom a problem.

Hehe its alright Kosh.  I read your post.   ;)

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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And with the US military, cost is seldom a problem.


It will be... :blah:

Among with pretty much everything else, as soon as the rest of the world realizes they're never going to get the lent money back from the black hole that is the US economy. It's being continuously resuscitated by foreign capital borrowed by the state. Obviously the figures show growth and yady dady da, but I have a sick feelign that some time in the twenties at least there'll be a huge global depression, possibly boosted by increasing extreme weather and stuff like that... Whether it starts from the US itself or from other parts of the world, diminishing the money flow to US (and subsequently collapsing the US economy as well), I can't know, but the results will be pretty much the same I guess.

So... Eat, drink and discuss the possible uses of strength-enhancing exoskeletons, tomorrow we will be ****ed up beyond much hope for repair. :rolleyes:

I could be wrong, though. It has happened in the past.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline jr2

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Hmm... Roaring Twenties, anyone?

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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Quote
Among with pretty much everything else, as soon as the rest of the world realizes they're never going to get the lent money back from the black hole that is the US economy.

That's already happening, hence the big drops in the dollar. It wont happen all at once though. The sub prime crisis has finally woke them up.........

From the way the candidates from both parties sound, it looks like we'll just have more of the same. The next 8 years may prove to be very interesting.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
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I thought that with the price of a single suit you could get many small initial response cranes and winches around the place.

Mika

do we have a estimate on the price? Prototypes are always expensive, but once it's finalized, who knows how much it's gonna cost. I'll wager as much as a Humvee, which is an acceptable price.
After all, you won't start giving these to every soldier - it would probably go to only select units, special forces. and believe me, for them, it's more than worth it!
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Wanderer

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Day these get in real active use the all _real_ opposing forces probably equip themself with modern equivalent of these:

Lahti L-39 20mm AT/sniper rifle (WW2 vintage)


or just with 'low-grade' RPGs, like good old RPG-7. In any case... no more walking tin cans - especially if they are clumsy. Still would probably worth their price for SWAT teams.
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
Day these get in real active use the all _real_ opposing forces probably equip themself with modern equivalent of these:

Lahti L-39 20mm AT/sniper rifle (WW2 vintage)


or just with 'low-grade' RPGs, like good old RPG-7. In any case... no more walking tin cans - especially if they are clumsy. Still would probably worth their price for SWAT teams.

what happens when you miss
lol wtf

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
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Honestly, power armor won't be regular use for a long time to come. If it's used, it will be used by special forces, and when they come, they come quitely, sneaky and well-planned.
There is a 99% chance you won't be able to use the sniper, as by the time you notice them, you will be very much dead alleady.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Wanderer

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what happens when you miss
That particular thing is semi-auto (that is - self loading) so probably just fire again.
Do not meddle in the affairs of coders for they are soggy and hard to light

 

Offline BloodEagle

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By the time powered armour is in heavy use, China will have invaded Alaska, the U.S. will have annexed Canada, and the European Commonwealth will have dissolved.

It's all here in this educational video.  ;7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkBNKa2KXZE

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
what happens when you miss
That particular thing is semi-auto (that is - self loading) so probably just fire again.

what happens when you and your pals miss in urban enviroment

also how much ammo can that thing+superpowerarmor carry

also how do you fit in apartments or anything with that thing

These things sucked in 1941, having been introduced in late 1930s, but they're kinda cool.

lol wtf

 

Offline colecampbell666

  • I See Dead Pictures
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  • Evolution and ascension.
Day these get in real active use the all _real_ opposing forces probably equip themself with modern equivalent of these:

Lahti L-39 20mm AT/sniper rifle (WW2 vintage)


or just with 'low-grade' RPGs, like good old RPG-7. In any case... no more walking tin cans - especially if they are clumsy. Still would probably worth their price for SWAT teams.
Whadda ya bet that Sandwich gets photographed with that next. :nod:
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 
This is actually a Anti-Tank Gun - a truly poor and desperate attempt of an anti-tank weapon.
And armor piercing is infact largely obsolete.
And this ain't no ****. But don't quote me for that one. - Mika

I shall rrreach worrrld domination!

 

Offline Mika

  • 28
Umm, I don't see how the motorization could help the suit perform any better than ordinary human. Other than carrying small caliber bullet proof plates around the pilot, but this is done with APCs and bullet proof vests already.

Actually, my father toyed with those anti-tank rifles in army. He said it took some civil courage to actually pull the trigger. And yes, it would pretty much happen so that the opposing force would simply use either modernized version of this rifle or a light rocket propelled grenade launcher. Besides, anyone willing to wear that exoskeleton suit while I shoot it with the old anti-tank rifle?

Today's main battle tanks can easily be destroyed by light RPGs and other similar war head class weaponry. It simply requires some knowledge. APCs can be damaged with armor piercing weaponry.

Quote
After all, you won't start giving these to every soldier - it would probably go to only select units, special forces. and believe me, for them, it's more than worth it!

The problem is that I cannot figure out any use for them in the military, not by the common units or by the special forces.

And I think the unit price will remain high for several reasons. One of them will be dimensional tolerances the second one is about lubrication of the mechanical support structure and joints. Third one is the use of exotic materials due to the weight saving reasons. Fourth one is the controlling system and its reliability in every possible circumstance.

Also, bear in mind that cars have been manufactured about hundred years, so it is not a wonder the manufacturing price is low and the technology is quite mature. With this suit, there is nothing like it in the world, and there is no industrial experience regarding the key areas of the system. All this would mean a hefty price tag for me.

Mika
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

  

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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  • Bad command or file name
This is actually a Anti-Tank Gun - a truly poor and desperate attempt of an anti-tank weapon.

It wasn't that poor considering the opposing armoured vehicles at the time. The weapon was designed in 1939 to partially fill the desperate need of any anti-tank weaponry, since about the only AT weapons available were some odd less or more portable anti-tank cannons. And considering how much more portable it was than a full-fledged AT cannon, and how the shaped charges as anti-tank weapons would be developed by the Germans only later during the war as infantry AT weapons, it wasn't that bad of an effort.

After it stopped being useful against tanks, it was used as a long range heavy sniper rifle, against lightly armoured or non-armoured vehicles and against fortified positions - as well as an anti-aircraft weapon against slow ground attack planes (Sturmoviks).

Quote from: Wikipedia
Winter War

During the Winter War Finland lacked anti-tank weaponry. Only two 20 mm rifles and a few 13.2 mm machine guns made it to the front, where the 13.2 mm machine guns were found to be ineffective and unreliable while the larger 20 mm ones proved successful against Soviet armour. Because of this, Finland finally settled on the 20 mm design and started production. The gun was also widely used in the "Cold Charlie" technique, where the Finns would use a mandequin to pose as an officer sloppily covering himself, Soviet snipers would fire upon it, and the Finns would use the Lahti L-39 to fire at the Soviet sniper.
tches (especially with phosphorus ammunition). It was even able to damage tank turrets and pin them to stop traversal of the cannon.

Users noticed the L-39 was heavy and difficult to move in the battlefield. Even its magazine weighed almost two kilograms more than the Finnish Suomi M-31 SMG. The whole weapon weighed some 50 kilograms and it was usually towed by reindeer or horses. In the field, a two man team was assigned to the gun's use to move and fire it. Some of the rifles were simply abandoned in the heat of battle. They were easy to replace, however. By the end of the war over 1900 of the L39's, manufactured by VKT (Valtion Kivääritehdas, "State Rifle Factory"), had been produced and put in the field.

I have to admit, though... 50 kg rifle... Pretty much like NSV 12.7mm machine gun along with the tripod mount and belt box full of rounds.

Having been part of some wonderful exercises concentrationg on how to transport an NSV from a firing position to another (and another, and another...) I would definitely not want to haul this piece of metal around, especially if it wasn't possible to take apart fast to make carrying the parts easier... :nervous:

Quote from: Admiral Stones
And armor piercing is infact largely obsolete.

No, it isn't obsolete.

It is true in the sense that infantry troops do not use directly piercing ammunition against heavily armoured tanks but instead use different kinds of shaped charges, be it by mine, propelled grenade (recoilless rifles) or anti-tank missile.

Tanks, however, do use armour piercing ammunition against each other, in addition to HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) rounds. These sabot rounds are essentially winged spikes or darts made of depleted uranium, concealed in a shell that fits the tank gun barrel and detaches after exiting the barrel, leaving the heavy, dense spike of death fly freely towards the target at extreme accuracy. The armour piercing effect of the sabot rounds is devastating due to extremely high muzzle velocities and high density and hardness of the sabot material.

And it goes without saying that as body armour becomes more effective, infantry weapons will further specialize on armour penetration. Rifle caliber rounds are already incapable of penetrating modern body armour (although they'll definitely leave a mark).



Aand... to say something about the suits. They might offer better endurance and much better ballistic protection than traditional fibre/ceramic body armour, with better coverage, but even the weakest of AT weapons would be a damn big risk. Getting hit with even an old M72 LAW (or 66 KES 75/88) grenade would cause heavy damage, as that in itself penetrates ~30 cm of panzer steel.

Getting suitable protection even against 12.7 mm sniper rifles would be far-fetched. Hell, even a Dragunov could be a hard one to deal with without making a Michelin man out of kevlar... Which kinda means that to be truly useful for an infantryman, the exoskeleton would need to be:

-small enough to not increase target profile notably
-not hinder normal movement and concealment at all
-offer enough increase in the soldier's physical abilities to be of any use.

Strength doesn't really help much in a modern firefight in itself, as long as you don't get into hand-to-hand fight against the enemy... The main advantage of the suit would be better endurance, better weapon aim (increased stability) and perhaps the most advantageous feature (if possible) would be increased running speed.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
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"Maximum Speed!" :D
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!