Author Topic: renegade capital ships info  (Read 9130 times)

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Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Truly great work: I truly like the solutions you proposed to the following problems and I think that actually all are quite good.

I Give you here a document on interceptor weapons:

http://files.the-underdogs.info//games/r/renegade/files/renegade.pdf

Here you will find info on: lasers (gold/orange bolt, similar to WCprophecy's tachyon guns), electron particle cannons (silvery/blue bolt rapidly fading with distance), neutron particle cannons (emerald green bolt), thorium phase inducers (unknown as they don't appear in battle for jacob's star), cone lasers (I would very much to see those in a dogfight: same as lasers but cone bolts allowing higher chance of reaching the target, although disipates more quickly than the standard laser) and mass drivers (orange spherical shots). (The special fighter spinal mount (vrak'tarr only) is not there, as the vrac'tarr is a newer design: For this cannon, I was thinking as something slightly similar to the wing commander prophecy devastator's heavy plasma cannon).

You'll find also everything on missiles:from more devastating to more accurate:  dumbfire, radiation intensity seeking (say heat seeker), surface scanning silhouette (say image recognition) transponder guided missiles (say friend or foe) and hell missiles (those evenly distribute damage across all the sections of a fighter's armour).

3 special missiles will appear at some point: torpedoes for the new dedicated anti cap ship interceptors, ground bombs for ground targets such as tanks and ground forces, and a special tech capture missile (say leech) for capturing TOG interceptors and patrol ships (although several strikes will be necessary to capture those. Those missiles won't work on destroyers and beyond).

Also, the renegade ships have uneven armour plating (like in wing commander): for instance, the renegade penetrator is finely protected front and back, but has very thin side armour, this means that when you dogfight with a penetrator, you must know the rules.

Some ships (heavy interceptors like the fluttering petal or the gladius) have turrets (with a varrying number of guns, although mostly 2). Those can fire on a 360 degree pattern (like the turrets of an ursa or medusa in freespace).

Some missions will ask the pilot to retrieve an ejected pilot (whether he be a renegade or TOG pilot). For this, I thought a pilot should call a support ship when he has secured the area: the support ship would be a renegade pegasus class corvette for retrieving ejected pilots or later in the came a captured TOG meteorum carrier corvette to retrieve disabled fighters). The pilot will call them ingame using the reinforcements command.

I think that's about all now. The only thing I need to find now is data on tanks and ground forces.

so long.

 

Offline starlord

  • 210
Re: renegade capital ships info
And I've finally got the tanks:

here are the 2 files we'll need for the tanks:

http://members.tripod.com/~Rlegion/2Acr/2nd-ACR.pdf (TOG)
http://members.tripod.com/~Rlegion/harbing.pdf (renegade)

Perhaps the tanks weapon systems will have to be accordingly "scaled" to the game, as interceptors are bound to engage them. Also, ground targets will comprise of infantry legions, artillery turrets (varryin designs), and buildings ranging from factories and command buildings to shield generators and T-Doppler deep space tracking stations.

I think thats all the data gathering we'll need. No doubt I'm going to start a modding thread regarding the renegade legion project soon. I hope you will all manifest your interest, as we will no doubt need all available help.

thanks for your support.

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Don't put to much work into ground missions. FS is still a space combat engine and I haven't played any groundmissions so far with it. I know that there is a mod that seams to have a lot of them. Still I would concentrate on one aspect and that is spacebattles.

While posting my two cents here and give you some advice about what to do I have enough stuff at my hands to do and the time I have will mostly be used to do Saga stuff. So you shouldn't count me in for doing anything beside giving advice.
I would like to see this universe given a chance in becomming something playable but I would even more like to see me getting some Saga stuff done first.
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Of course, I do understand. But thank you for giving your advice in the first place. Also, who knows: perhaps when saga will be completed, perhaps you will want to return to the renegade legion.

Anyway, in the meantime, I'll refurbish the story details. I'm especially trying to pour some details into campaign 4 (the most difficult storywise). Probably this will end with a whole fleet of civillan and military ships (full of human and ssora refugees) fleeing to the vae victis entry system in a desperate attempt to join commonwhealth space, with the lictor hot on their trail.

Storywise, I was woundering if I would put in a spy/traitor, however, there is already one in the battle for jacob's star and I don't think I really have the need for it nor does the story. Yet I'll think it over.

Alea jacta est.

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Ah, besides: Does WCsaga allow ships to have uneven armour (4 quadrant armour)like in wing commander? (side armour being less dense than front/aft armour)? This is especially true regarding the renegade penetrator fighter, and I woundered if it could be featured in the MOD.

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
No there isn't something like that but I think someone was developing something that had to do with armor. I think it was about giveing ships different kind of armor so that they would react differently to weaponfire.

As for spys. They are a neat thing to turn storys around but its not allways that good. If you allready got one then there isn't the need for another one. Except you want to the player to see spys everywhere and let him start shooting at others. For example you could have a real traitor that tries to convince you to join the other side and tells you that some loyal pilots are spys and to kill them.
If you go the very dramatic way the person you would need to kill is a close friend. You do so because you think it is right at that moment and later you find out that its all has been a lie...like some cake I allways hear of  :wtf:

The point is...can you take a cliché and turn it into something interesting?
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
hmm: that's a toughy: How can I render the penetrator vulnerable sidewise while being well protected front and rear?

Besides for the spy story: I think that since battle for jacob's star has one (and further more, a new spy is chosen for each game, meaning the spy is never the same guy, so cannon wise it's not precise), there will be no need to use another one for the MOD (the story will be quite difficult without one).

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Simple answere...you can't. As far as I know there is just a set number for the hull and one for the shield. So you could ask for a code change or you have to find a way around this to give the ships the protection you want it to have.
I don't know if its possible to give a ship more then one shield to simulate that its better protected from the front. Creating a shieldmesh that isn't a complete bubble but is open to the side and front.
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Yeah, I hope this answer is possible!

Also, I've come up with an alternative to the SOC covert freespace missions:

I was woundering if it would be possible to sometimes choose a campaign path. For instance: just before the end of campaign 4: You are required to escort the fleet of fleeing ships to the vae victis entry node where they will return to commonwhealth space, however, the lictor's fleet is standing in front of the node intent on wrecking those ships to shreds. So a daring plan has been formed: a diversion: The plan will be to leave the civillan fleet with e skeletton defense while the war ships will attack an industrial system belonging to the lictor: this attack's goal will be the destruction of the gennium-arsenic "crystal gardens", preventing the lictor from manufacturing lasers. With a bit of luck, the lictor will not expect us here and will be compelled to defend it's system, therefore loosening the blockade.
Here, you would be proposed to participate to the attack on the crystal gardens. You could be free to accept or to decline and stay to defend the convoy.

Wouldn't that be great?

Also, I think I found very interesting music tracks, but we may have a legal problem: The music tracks are from an old playstation 1 game that went out in 1995 called warhawk. The music simply fits the renegade legion MOD like a glove. But I will have to contact sony computer entertainment of america and ask them if I can use this old game's music tracks.

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
This kind of mission branching is indeed a good idea gameplay wise. The other thing is the story. Are you, the player, in a position, read high ranked enough, to decide something like that? I think except for succied mission the military dosn't give a simple pilot many choises on what missions he will be flying.

About the music track...I may remind you that you aren't holding any rights on Renegade or any of its offsprings as far as I know. So you are doing an illigal project. So going to a company and asking for there stuff for an illigal project dosn't seam to be the wisest corse of action, does it?
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
No, but in freespace 2: some estimates that dangerous SOC covert missions can be declined by pilots.

Besides, regarding the rights: If we reason this way, then All freespace 2 MODS are illegal: I don't think that the beyond the red line team bought any rights to the battlestar galactica series, neither did the babylon project to the babylon series.
So what should I do? I hesitate to use those musics without saying anything...

Weaponwise: Regarding the thorium phase inducer (TPI), As it is a plasma weapon, I'd see a bolt similar to the green blob turret in freespace (just as slow moving, yet capable of doing some serious damage). For info, this weapon is exclusive to renegade ships.

Regarding the cone lasers (or clasers), would it be possible to have a cone shaped bolt (would the freespace engine allow it)? Damage would be slightly more significant than the laser, but less far fatching. The bolt would have the same speed as the standard laser.

Next I'll try to have someone to scan parts of renegade battle for jacob's star manual and upload the images here so you can see the new ships designs (renegade illustrius destroyer class carrier, renegade inflexible class cruiser AND the famous TOG seneca class cruiser). Also, I could give a map of the grand dukedoms (the highest scale of the conflict), a sneak view of the ssora fighter I have evoqued earlier (can't remember the name) and some info on the species (as well as photos).
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 01:20:52 pm by starlord »

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
About the rights...thats has nothing to do with reasoning. They are if they are using other peoples creative work/propertie of mind. Its as simple as this.

Companys are closing an eye or two when it comes to modding because it keeps their games selling. There have been many mods that have been shut down because of this. No FS ones I know of but other games. There are different reasons for this but best thing is to keep a low profile and put in as much "legal" stuff as you can. In Saga we have our own composer who does some music for us. There are also a number of more or less free musics in the web you could search. I don't know what its called in other countries but in german its the GEMA you would have to pay for using other peoples music. That is if you get the permission to use it at all. In england I think they where called BMI.

As for all mods beeing illegal. That isn't right. The FS2open engine itself is for free. Creating your own universe with your own tools, music, models and whatever is legal...as long as you don't want money for it IIRC.


TPI
What is that weapon against? If its against fighters I would recommend something different then these slow moveing blobs that only hit when you stop you ship.

cLaser
I haven't seen this kind of effect in any mod so far. I would guess it isn't possible.

"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
All right regarding the TPI: We'll just have to make the bolts move a little faster, while remaining the slowes bolts in the game.

Regarding the clasers, could we design a new bolt? It will be simply slightly coneish, nothing more. The FS2 engine should be able to do this.

Regarding the music, I think you are right: we will have to find a composer. Nevertheless, it would be good for the musics to stay as close as possible to the warhawk musics.

Also, good news. Maje just sent a PM saying that he is somewhat interested in the renegade universe and he may give me a hand with things. Yet he said that being quite busy at the moment with the star wars conversion, I'll have to be patient.
But I don't care about waiting. I'm already very thankful that he's considering helping me even if this may be only in the far future. I'll start the modding thread when he will have joined (if he still wants to, that is).

Things are perhaps starting to move. wish me luck.

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Just thought about the speed of bolds. Basicly we have lasers here or other streams of particles. What about making them fast, realy fast!
Maybe even make them a short beam instead of a bold. I don't have any weapon discriptions so far or played the older games. Still it would be quite some different gameplay depending on what you choose.
Fast small bolds like an MG, the more SW like slow moveing laserbolds or a short (firingtime) beam...like in the Minmbari fighters TBP. Maybe even standing a bit longer.

The design of the cLaser depends on how big the cone would be. A small cone shape is doable without a doubt.

Its good to see that there is at least one person that might help you. What part will Maje be helping with?
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Maje hasn't been precise on that point however it seems he's one of the top guys in the star wars conversion. I hope he'll resume contact when his scedule will allow it.

Regarding the weaponry, Just to keep related to renegade: battle for jacob's star, I'll keep the idea of bolts (no beams). Lasers will be orange/gold ray-like bolts (like WC prophecy's tachyon gun), EPC's will be silvery blue ray-like bolts (like the WC prophecy's ion cannon); NPC's will be emerald green ray-like bolts (greener and thinner than the prometheus, possibly a WC prophecy's mason blaster, if such thing existed). Mass drivers (and variants) will be red/orange small spheres (like WC prophecy's particle cannons) with the heavy mass drivers firing bigger spheres and the gatling variants firing a bigger number of spheres (possibly, although less fast, like the WC secret OPS dust cannon). TPI's will fire green blobs (like the freespace green blobs) but slightly faster so they can be used in a dogfight. The TPI will yet be the slower projectile in the MOD (used by renegade ships only). And clasers will fire orange/gold conical bolts (smally conical: I think it can be done. This technology is exclusive to the TOG, but has been captured by the commonwhealth and newer fighters can accomodate this weapon. However, a lot of TOG fighters possess it: This means you'll also possess them when flying captured TOG fighters). The fighter's spinal mount (vrak'tarr only) will fire a very dense projectile (like WC prophecy's heavy plasma cannon on the devastator) capable of penetrating the shields of warships and do serious damage.

Also, some ships like the na'ctka mokqua 2 (fluttering petal 2) will possess a system similar to the autotargetting system of the WC excalibur. Meaning even if it looses the 2 big mass drivers and the automatic turret of the petal 1, this baby can fire 6 lasers at a TOG fighter and nearly always score it's mark, often spelling doom to the TOG fighter in question. Can the autotarget (or rather the "greatly assisted targetting") feature be used in the freespace engine? Although I think you are using something similar in WCsaga for the excalibur, no?

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
I haven't used it myself because I find it more fun to target manualy but there is a autotarget feature as far as I remember it.

About the weapons...that was just a idea on how you could make them.
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Again a little bit of additionnal info: The ssora fighter "sstarotht" 's human name is the "chasing shadow". It can be seen streaking past a shiva battleship with something exploding behind it in the leviathan PDF somewhere.
Those ships will be piloted by the player also in campaign 4 to help spread disorder: ssora's will be thought to attack the other factions, etc...

Also, some planet ground attack missions would be great if set during the night. (I hope this is possible). Imagine taking out a TOG airfield in the dead of the night with bombs, shrouded in blackness with searchlights sparking up and trying to get a fix on your fighter while flak guns and anti interceptor turrets keep barking at you...

Also, regarding the gun bays: I forgot: there is a 10 gun type of bay (smallest). This one is used on corvettes/escorts and sometimes serve as secondary bays on frigates or destroyers.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 07:40:32 am by starlord »

 

Offline gevatter Lars

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Re: renegade capital ships info
I am not sure about the possibility of nightmissions. I think there has allways to be a sun. Maybe you could tune down the suns strength so much that it would look like a bright full moon.
Still there is the overall ambi light strength that can be set by the player. If its to high you won't get the same effect. So you would have to tell the player not to touch the settings for it or find another way to turn it down.
This would be a questions for the mission designers and tech people. They most likely know more abou thtis.

Aren't the bays all covered in the sourcebook? I thought I have seen a 10bay. Well if you get a 100 to work smaller ones aren't a real problem I guess.
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline starlord

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Re: renegade capital ships info
Well I think we covered just about all the issues here. I just need to upload (one day) the several pages of the battle for jacob's star manual with the newer designs (illustrious, inflexible and seneca), the dukedom map, and the species info and photos.

 

Offline starlord

  • 210
Re: renegade capital ships info
It seems the vae victis topic in the modding forum had several problems lately, so I'll post the last of the material here.

Feedback will be extremely appreciated.

lnk is here: http://www.4shared.com/file/35906170/c1aa58d5/renegade.html?dirPwdVerified=380ccc6c

Also, the mission planning made for campaign 1 turning point is nearly complete.

best regards.