Author Topic: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'  (Read 4904 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
That's an excellent set of points, Demetrious. Thank you.

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
There's just one thing: GTVA Command had no idea the supernova would occur, and there is no way Alpha 1 could have known. Rushing to the node to save one's skin is not a decision you can make without knowledge of the supernova. If you're out five klicks from the node, fighting Dragons, there's no way you'll get there in time. The decision is essentially made for you. You cannot have made the right decision without being informed of the consequences, right? It was not a decision to sacrifice one's life so that others might keep theirs, it was a decision to use your superb piloting skills to save a couple of lives from Shivan fighters. Alpha 1 did not decide to die, he/she made a decision to protect civilians from enemy fighters. You protected civilians, just like you had been doing every mission of the campaign, and this time you ended up paying for it, through something you could never have foreseen.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Planning to die as a result of your actions isn't a necessity for heroism. I doubt many posthumous Medal of Honor winners planned to earn it posthumously.

Given the overwhelming Shivan presence, the sensible thing to do would be to run as soon as the later convoys, with their fighter escort, jump in. If you stay and fight -- in your damaged vessel, fresh from the battle around the Bastion -- you're going above and beyond the call of duty. And then you die for it. The fact that you didn't know the supernova was coming doesn't cheapen the choice to stay and fight.

Thus the heroism.

Also, way more than a couple of lives. If it was just a couple people on those transports, Command would be all: "A civilian transport is down! Fred Tuttle and Judy S. Normans perished in the blast! End this massacre now, pilots!"
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 10:58:41 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
True. Very true. But Command posthumously (we think, perhaps Alpha 1 got spirited away by the Shivans to their land of paradise, like all their "victims" are) commends you specifically for staying behind so that others will make it to the node, even when warned of the imminent catastrophe. That manifestly isn't true.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
I suppose that's just blatant spin.

Though he might have loaded a BtRL build and chosen to use Newtonian mechanics to reach the node more quickly, Alpha 1 maintained an arcade physics model, knowing that the AI of the civilian vessels was not sophisticated enough to maneuver under realistic conditions. His heroism sets an example for us all.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2008, 11:32:35 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
I believe we have found a point where we can agree.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
It is possible to destroy all Shivan fighters and bombers present and still reach the node, even in an Ares.  If you get them quickly, you'll have about a minute's head start before the supernova is triggered.

Even in this scenario, though, Alpha 1's job is to hang out next to the cruisers and transports and wait for more Shivans to arrive, not cower next to the node.  No Terran or Vasudan fighter is capable of covering 8000 meters in 50 seconds, so in order to get there in time, you have to start running before Command's transmission.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 01:49:48 am by Goober5000 »

 

Offline jr2

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Heh... First time through, there was only a few enemy fighters left, and, since I knew I couldn't make it to the node, I just decided to blast as many Shivans as I could... the Transports that remained - their fate was decided anyways.  Another time I did manage to do the same thing and almost make it to the node.  Pretty much, if you know what's coming, you can pretty much get as many of the transports that have a chance to the node, then always keep close enough to the node to make it.

 
Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Quote from: General Battua
Also, way more than a couple of lives. If it was just a couple people on those transports, Command would be all: "A civilian transport is down! Fred Tuttle and Judy S. Normans perished in the blast! End this massacre now, pilots!"

Quote from: General Battua
Though he might have loaded a BtRL build and chosen to use Newtonian mechanics to reach the node more quickly, Alpha 1 maintained an arcade physics model, knowing that the AI of the civilian vessels was not sophisticated enough to maneuver under realistic conditions. His heroism sets an example for us all.

  :lol: Thank you for the lulz.

"...perished in the blast! End this massacre now, pilots!"

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
True. Very true. But Command posthumously (we think, perhaps Alpha 1 got spirited away by the Shivans to their land of paradise, like all their "victims" are) commends you specifically for staying behind so that others will make it to the node, even when warned of the imminent catastrophe. That manifestly isn't true.

:yes:
-C

 

Offline S-99

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
What was the farthest distance people made away from the node?
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

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Offline eliex

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'

 Stinks how the Lemnos gets blasted although it was only about 1.5 k from the Vega node.

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Gotta love the coolness in the face of death though. "We are all about to die, so make sure you stay away from the explosion, alrighty?
Interestingly enough, this signature is none of the following:
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Hobo Queens are Crowned, but Hobo Kings are Found.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Actually if you know how to use the afterburner well enough the Horus might be able too.
Forgot about the Horus... but I doubt it.  You need to be going an average of 160 m/s, and while the afterburn velocity is 170 m/s, the top cruising speed is only 110 m/s.

Of course, the Horus isn't available in that mission anyway. :)

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
I know... just nitpicking :(

But you're not going to be exactly 8000m away, I'd say that it would be more of 8000 +/- 2000. So you have just as much chance of being totally screwed as gonna make it with 6 seconds left.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Interplay has the following tip (sort of; I'm drumming it up from memory) on how to escape the supernova:

"At the eleven-minute mark, fly towards the node and stay inside there. Wait about sixty seconds, then warp out. Congratulations! You have completed main FreeSpace 2 campaign"

Here's a tip for cheaters to get most of the ships out without disabling the Cains:

"Auto-target hostiles, then press and hold ~ + k." ;)

I've never tried disabling Cains...because the thought of doing so never occurred to me.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
Must be someone pretty damn important on those Cains for the Shivans to hold the supernova for them.
-C

 
Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
What if you let the Cains through? Has anyone ever tried that?

 

Offline ssmit132

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
I took a quick look of the mission in Notepad, and:

1) The cruisers do not have a departure cue,
Code: [Select]
$Name: Bane ;! Object #45
$Class: SC Cain
$Team: Hostile
$Location: -6139.924805, -0.000154, -18636.003906
$Orientation:
0.997925, 0.000000, -0.064384,
-0.000590, 0.999958, -0.009150,
0.064381, 0.009169, 0.997883
$IFF: IFF 1
$AI Behavior: None
$AI Goals: ( goals ( ai-waypoints "Waypoint path 7" 50 ) )
$Cargo 1:  XSTR("Nothing", -1)
+Initial Velocity: 100
+Initial Hull: 100
+Initial Shields: 100
+Subsystem: Pilot
+Subsystem: turret01
+Subsystem: turret02
+Subsystem: turret03
+Subsystem: turret04
+Subsystem: turret05
+Subsystem: turret06
+Subsystem: turret07
+Subsystem: turret08
+Subsystem: turret09
$Arrival Location: Hyperspace
$Arrival Cue: ( is-destroyed-delay 15 "Thanatos" )
$Departure Location: Hyperspace
$Departure Cue: ( false )
$Determination: 10
+Flags: ( "no-shields" )+Respawn priority: 0

$Name: Melchom ;! Object #51
$Class: SC Cain
$Team: Hostile
$Location: -6221.718750, 0.000082, -17867.998047
$Orientation:
0.996724, 0.000000, -0.080878,
-0.000795, 0.999952, -0.009793,
0.080874, 0.009826, 0.996676
$IFF: IFF 1
$AI Behavior: None
$AI Goals: ( goals ( ai-waypoints "Waypoint path 8" 50 ) )
$Cargo 1:  XSTR("Nothing", -1)
+Initial Velocity: 100
+Initial Hull: 100
+Initial Shields: 100
+Subsystem: Pilot
+Subsystem: turret01
+Subsystem: turret02
+Subsystem: turret03
+Subsystem: turret04
+Subsystem: turret05
+Subsystem: turret06
+Subsystem: turret07
+Subsystem: turret08
+Subsystem: turret09
$Arrival Location: Hyperspace
$Arrival Cue: ( is-destroyed-delay 15 "Thanatos" )
$Departure Location: Hyperspace
$Departure Cue: ( false )
$Determination: 10
+Flags: ( "no-shields" )+Respawn priority: 0

2) The supernova only happens if Libra wing has been in the mission, and Libra wing warps in when either the Bane or the Melchom are destroyed.
Code: [Select]
$Name: Libra
$Waves: 2
$Wave Threshold: 0
$Special Ship: 0 ;! Libra 1

$Arrival Location: Hyperspace
$Arrival Cue: ( or
   ( is-destroyed-delay 5 "Bane" )
   ( is-destroyed-delay 5 "Melchom" )
)

 

Offline S-99

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Re: 'remained behind so that others might reach the Vega node'
The colossus should have warped out when it could have. All i know is that it would be way more effective for the colossus to have kept a low profile, and only show up at the node in the last mission defending the convoys. It would have been a much less bloodier convoy then :nod:
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.