Author Topic: Primary election thread  (Read 18447 times)

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Primary election thread
Could we at least postpone the fall of the empire until I'm finished benefiting from its institutions of higher education?
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Primary election thread
Heh, me too.

Seriously though, you could also argue the opposite, that because World-Wide opinion of the American government is generally extremely low, we want there to be vote-rigging, it would fit nicely with our image of them.

I will accept your point that it would be very hard indeed to convince people of vote fraud, but that's an ongoing paradox through the West at the moment, I think the Internet is partly to blame, we are subjected to so many off-the-wall viewpoints these days that no-one pays any attention to them any more. So when someone claims vote rigging, we just think 'Oh look, another conspiracy theorist.'

Whilst I'm loathe to use a term as cliche as 'the truth is out there', I do think that not all 'conspiracy theories' are purely the realm of the Tin Foil Hat brigade, but there are so many now that it's almost impossible to tell the genuine ones from the crackpots.

The problem is, I guess, more than anything now, America needs a 'clean' election, where there are as few doubts raised about the result as possibly. Personally, I'd recommend going back to paper balloting, there still seems to be a great deal of Technophobia in various sections of American society, people trust paper. It will have to go electronic eventually, but they need to do a lot more to make sure the system is secure and publicly trusted.

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Primary election thread
But you're assuming that anyone with say-so is interested in having a clean election. Getting people used to the idea of being screwed over, to the point where they no longer care, makes sense from a self-serving politician's point of view. Sure, their particular posse may loose this time, but next go around they'll be the winners of the corrupt system and round and round it goes.

Could we at least postpone the fall of the empire until I'm finished benefiting from its institutions of higher education?
Sure. Your fancy-pants college edumacation will come in real handy when President McCain starts drafting people because "the insurgency is in its last last final last throes". They'll need plenty of innalekshuals to service their F-22s.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Primary election thread
Well the idea was sort of that I'd like to have my degrees before I flee to Europe in sheer terror.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Primary election thread
Did you not read the article I linked?  There were 31 votes in a certain county that should have been recorded, while the actual recorded total was 0.  That's fraud.  Whether it was intentional or not is immaterial; it happened.  And if it happened in one county, it's very possible that it happened in others.

Blithely ignoring evidence is no way to win an argument.  It doesn't work for TrashMan, and it won't work for you.

Yes, I am ignoring evidence because I have just pointed out that in fact, exit polls and actual records have no disrepancy at all, which is quite damn important when one considers whether a fraud happened or not!

How many votes did Ron Paul get, and how much did he get according to exit poll (n=1955)? Is there a disrepancy?

And well, I can just post another link,
http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/2264


lol wtf

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Primary election thread
Did you not read the article I linked?  There were 31 votes in a certain county that should have been recorded, while the actual recorded total was 0.  That's fraud.  Whether it was intentional or not is immaterial; it happened.  And if it happened in one county, it's very possible that it happened in others.

Blithely ignoring evidence is no way to win an argument.  It doesn't work for TrashMan, and it won't work for you.

1. Why do you bring me in this discussion? Why do you soil my good name?  :wtf:
I'm a rational person, I don't ignore strong evidence and such posts are uncalled for.
*smacks goob*
They shouldn't have let you out of prison! :D

2. The masses are whimsical. It takes so little for them to change their vote.. I don't pretend I can predict the results and IMHO, anything thinking he can is full of bull***. While it certainly is possible there was a fraud (it ALWAYS is) it just as likely there wasn't one.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 10:46:03 am by TrashMan »
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Primary election thread
I'd prefer all the election stuff to stay in one thread, which quite possibly means a little bit of extra lenience with it, however, let's please not let this turn into a flamewar? ;)

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Primary election thread
Yes, I am ignoring evidence because I have just pointed out that in fact, exit polls and actual records have no disrepancy at all
Yes, you are.  All it takes is one counterexample to prove a generalization false.


Quote
How many votes did Ron Paul get, and how much did he get according to exit poll (n=1955)? Is there a disrepancy?
One county says he got 0, but the people who voted in that county said he got >0.  That's a discrepancy.

And the discrepancy is not limited to Ron Paul.  Clinton and Obama had the widest shift... over 14 points in one night?  When dozens of polls consistently show one outcome, and a single poll shows another outcome, the burden of proof is on that single poll to prove that it is correct.


Quote
And well, I can just post another link,
http://www.democracyfornewhampshire.com/node/view/2264
I'm not sure if you read that link carefully, since it supports my argument.  The person quoting the New Hampshire attorney general is calling attention to the possibility that the voting systems could have been corrupted.

Anyway, if you can't see what's right in front of your eyes, there's not much I can do to convince you.

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Primary election thread
I'm not sure if you read that link carefully, since it supports my argument.  The person quoting the New Hampshire attorney general is calling attention to the possibility that the voting systems could have been corrupted.

Anyway, if you can't see what's right in front of your eyes, there's not much I can do to convince you.

You have been talking of confirmed fraud.
However, nothing is confirmed. You know very well that mere accusations and some lost votes in one county do not constitute a fraud, only an accusation.
If you think I miss your point, then perhaps you should understand that actually you miss mine - you talk about confirmation, which has not happened.

Quote
And the discrepancy is not limited to Ron Paul.  Clinton and Obama had the widest shift... over 14 points in one night?  When dozens of polls consistently show one outcome, and a single poll shows another outcome, the burden of proof is on that single poll to prove that it is correct.
All polls nailed the other candidates, which got as much as predicted, but the point is that independents started to favour Clinton. Hence the horrible one-night jump (which was also obvious on exit polls as I repeat for the third time). These independents are usually underrepresented in phone polling, which focus on registered D/R voters for obvious reasons.

Rasmussen poll has now nailed 2/2 of Republican winners and 1/2 of Democratic winners. It's widely considered the most reliable phone poll there is.
lol wtf

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Primary election thread
Well the idea was sort of that I'd like to have my degrees before I flee to Europe in sheer terror.

Why?  Flee to a European university for an education - their educational standards are higher than those in most US post-secondary.

Actually, so are a few of Canada's, for that matter.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Primary election thread
The New Hampshire secretary of state's office has announced they will do a state-wide recount.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Primary election thread
Well the idea was sort of that I'd like to have my degrees before I flee to Europe in sheer terror.

Why?  Flee to a European university for an education - their educational standards are higher than those in most US post-secondary.

Actually, so are a few of Canada's, for that matter.
I think that's largely a myth. My understanding is that European schools work you harder but American education is more flexible, in that it's easier to decide you don't like something and make a drastic switch. And I think that's arguably more important; my experience with American college education is that you get what you put into it. Anyone from Europe please feel free to set me straight, though.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Primary election thread
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/FRONTPAGE/801120412

Quote
Jennifer Call's eyes searched the office for nothing in particular. Her arms waved and her fear spilled out.

"This is where I grew up," Sutton's town clerk said yesterday. "This is my hometown, this is where my family is, and all of sudden, my name is being splashed across the internet as this horrible person. And the frightening part is, I don't know these people and they don't know me."

Call wants the nationwide army of boisterous Ron Paul supporters, believers in more conspiracy theories than Oliver Stone, to know that she's committed no crime.

Not treason, as the dozens of phone callers screamed. Not fraud, as the dozens of e-mails charged. Nothing.

Human error, by someone unknown, caused Call's office to claim Paul received zero votes from the town during Tuesday's first-in-the-nation primary.

Paul actually got a whopping 31 votes.

Out of 920 cast.

lol wtf

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Primary election thread
I think that's largely a myth. My understanding is that European schools work you harder but American education is more flexible, in that it's easier to decide you don't like something and make a drastic switch. And I think that's arguably more important; my experience with American college education is that you get what you put into it. Anyone from Europe please feel free to set me straight, though.

I don't know the rest of europe but I can tell you how things work here in Croatia...

Breadth. You learn everything. You suffocate in theory till ti starts coming our of your nose. you cover so much in large detail over a small ammount of time, that you really don't have much time to put that knowledge to use.
Lots of theory..little practical work.
Once you finish you know everything but at the same time know nothing... :lol:
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Send in the TMF

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Re: Primary election thread
if we elect Clinton it will be like bill Clinton all over again because the entire time, she had him by the balls  :lol:
TMF? what the hell is the TMF?

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Primary election thread
http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/NV.html

So Romney wins a (fairly) big one, and Clinton wins two in a row.

Thoughts?
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Primary election thread
I think romney was pretty desperate to win in Michigan. I doubt he can win in the south against huckabee, so he needs to win in the northern states.

I'm not really sure what guliani is doing......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Primary election thread
Losing, thank god. I think he would have been dangerously electable as a candidate.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Primary election thread
Quote
Sure. Your fancy-pants college edumacation will come in real handy when President McCain starts drafting people because "the insurgency is in its last last final last throes". They'll need plenty of innalekshuals to service their F-22s.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22745282/

McCain ended up winning in SC, your prediction might very well come true, rictor.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Primary election thread
The current delegate count.

Republicans, 1191 needed to win
Romney 59
Huckabee 39
McCain 36
Thompson 5
Paul 4
Hunter 2
Giuliani 1

Democrats, 2025 needed to win
Obama 38
Clinton 36
Edwards 18
Gravel 0
Kucinich 0
The rest have dropped.
lol wtf