[Rictor]

lol @ Giuliani

[Janos]

And for more news: Fred Thompson has dropped out of the race.
Obligatory link: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/22/thompson.out/index.html

Also, Rasmussen polls.
McCain is now the GOP front runner (Chuck Norris said McCain's too old) with 22%, Romney close second with 19%, Huckabee 16%. In Dem side, Clinton now leads Obama 42-31, Edwards only 13%.

[Ford Prefect]

God damnit. I'm gonna have to smoke so much opium before I cast my vote for Clinton.

[Janos]

God damnit. I'm gonna have to smoke so much opium before I cast my vote for Clinton.

why not vote repub---

sorry

[Ford Prefect]

The only thing that would make that seem like a good idea is PCP, and that **** ain't right.

[perihelion]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.



Vote Trogdor!

[Kosh]

Trogdor? Pffft. Vote Kzer-Za

[Janos]

Kucinich is out as well.

[TrashMan]

Pffft...I know far better candidates:

DARTH VADER
http://www.comicspage.com/brewster/brewster.html

DIRK RAIDER:
http://www.comicspage.com/comicspage/main.jsp?catid=1876&custid=69&file=20080122csbre-a-p.jpg&code=csbre&dir=/brewster

[Rictor]

God damnit. I'm gonna have to smoke so much opium before I cast my vote for Clinton.

Can't you just, y'know, burn down an orphanage instead? Have some decency, at least.

Kucinich is out as well.

The little guy never had a chance, unfortunately. If the Dem base voted their principles, it would be Kucinich by a landslide.
,,,but you just know all the other candidates are jealous of his wife.

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah seriously, if there were a fellatio scandal in that hypothetical White House I really would be pissed off.

[TopAce]

It's already obvious that the winner will be either Obama or Hillary Clinton.

Whoever wins, a historically important election will be won - if electing the world's largest country's leader is not a big event in itself. The US will have either the first female President or the first African-American President. So far, rhetorics does not seem to point this out so much, but I guess it's a factor for the people.

The largest problem I can see in every election is that the great majority of the people cannot judge who is the better candidate, only based on who is more sympathetic to them It's practically all about rhetorics - who says what and how. Who will do what when elected is a different issue.

If I were an American, I would vote for Obama. He is not as experienced as Hillary, there is no doubt of that, but I think that can be a good thing.  What I mean is that HC acts based on what is expected from her, while Obama acts what he thinks is right. That's why he seems to be a better candidate to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but independence is an important value for Americans.

[Janos]

It's already obvious that the winner will be either Obama or Hillary Clinton.

Whoever wins, a historically important election will be won - if electing the world's largest country's leader is not a big event in itself. The US will have either the first female President or the first African-American President. So far, rhetorics does not seem to point this out so much, but I guess it's a factor for the people.

The largest problem I can see in every election is that the great majority of the people cannot judge who is the better candidate, only based on who is more sympathetic to them It's practically all about rhetorics - who says what and how. Who will do what when elected is a different issue.

If I were an American, I would vote for Obama. He is not as experienced as Hillary, there is no doubt of that, but I think that can be a good thing.  What I mean is that HC acts based on what is expected from her, while Obama acts what he thinks is right. That's why he seems to be a better candidate to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but independence is an important value for Americans.

This entire "experience" thing is damn weird. It's a superb talking point, but seriously, Obama has more experience in legislative bodies, in constitutional matters and in civil rights matters. Clinton was a first lady, was appointed to be the chairman of new HC intiative, travelled 79 time abroad and was elected as a senator in 2000. She has whopping 8 YEARS in senate.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, was elected as a state senator in 1996, was re-elected twice, got to Senate in 2004. Before that, he majored in PolSci and "As an associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996, he represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases.[28] He was a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.[29]" Clinton was quite active as a first lady and as such has some experience Obama doesn't, but Obama has been an elected representative for 12 years and has actually studied law and political science.

[IPAndrews]

[quote author=TopAce link=topic=51359.msg1046167#msg1046167 He is not as experienced as Hillary, there is no doubt of that, but I think that can be a good thing.  What I mean is that HC acts based on what is expected from her, while Obama acts what he thinks is right.[/quote]

That's a really smart way of looking at it.

[Rictor]

I think it's profoundly naive to think that Obama is this maverick outsider who fights for principles because the system has not yet corrupted him. It's a narrative that marketers and PR people have cooked up - he's a career politician, just like most of the rest of them.  When it comes to defending the status quo in Washington, I see no reason to hope that he will prove any different than Clinton.

[TrashMan]

In that case, you are right...both have a strong PR machine that writes speaches and adjusts their apperance.

It's also not unheard that some politicians are placed there by those behind them - a candidate is nothing more than a puppet, a trustworthy face that will get people to elect him, and the people behind him the power.

Frankly, I have a hard time to believe anyone is telling HC what to do.

Obama? Who knew anything about him before the election race begun? Where did he suddenly pop up from? IMHO, he looks like he's been created for the election..

[Janos]

I think it's profoundly naive to think that Obama is this maverick outsider who fights for principles because the system has not yet corrupted him. It's a narrative that marketers and PR people have cooked up - he's a career politician, just like most of the rest of them.  When it comes to defending the status quo in Washington, I see no reason to hope that he will prove any different than Clinton.

So is he better, is he worse, or are you just sprouting off cheap rhetorics of South Park Republicanism?

[Rictor]

So is he better, is he worse, or are you just sprouting off cheap rhetorics of South Park Republicanism?

I guess that depends entirely on your definition of "worse".

Is he likely to exercise either the power of the American government over its people or of the American nation over the world not differently or more constructively, but less? If the answer is no, and I think we can all agree that it is, then he is a champion of the status quo. Or would you like to point to a few policy positions where Obama differs significantly from, say, John McCain?

[Janos]

So is he better, is he worse, or are you just sprouting off cheap rhetorics of South Park Republicanism?

I guess that depends entirely on your definition of "worse".

Is he likely to exercise either the power of the American government over its people or of the American nation over the world not differently or more constructively, but less? If the answer is no, and I think we can all agree that it is, then he is a champion of the status quo. Or would you like to point to a few policy positions where Obama differs significantly from, say, John McCain?

That's because you are a libertarian. I'm a communist and I think more is the key thing here.

You are framing it weirdly. It's entirely possible to have vivid discussion and differing thoughts inside one large encompassing structure, especially in a two-party system such as USA. You, as a self-announced libertarian, should be quite aware of the fact that even the fringe is very able to fragment and change.

And here goes for differences: McCain opposes most abortion, Obama is pro-choice. Obama is much softer on drugs than McCain. Obama defends UHC, McCain opposes. Obama does not hug George Bush, McCain does. Obama is more tolerant of gay rights than McCain.

There.

[Hippy]

I don't particularly care who wins the election as long as the enforce a little cultural change at the US State Dept (and others). Time to move beyond Realpolitik please, the Cold War is over.

It would also be nice if the new Pres elect could wind down the exceptionalism, the triumphalism, the militarism and the hypocrisy. But that would all come with abandoning Realpolitik.