Author Topic: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"  (Read 5082 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
It's true we don't know what the Shivans are doing. But ask yourself; why would the developers lie to us? It's the only explanation with a basis in canon, namely Petrarch's epilogue. It's not just Petrarch rambling, it's the epilogue to the entire game. Please remember that there was going to be an FS3, had FS2 done better financially. :v: had ideas of what the Shivans were doing. Remember our only hint: that the Shivans are a symptom of something big. This would have been developed further in FS3. Don't think about what happened in one ambiguous cutscene, think instead about the direction the story would have taken. Petrarch's speculation is evidence in itself. Think about it, Volition knew where they were going, would they have Petrarch go off on a completely unrelated tangent in the epilogue?



Possibly that they would. to throw you off track. Or maybe coause it's poetic.

I mean, at the end of FS1 the pilot in the monolouge sez shivans can rebuild the jump node(s) to earth. Did we see them do that in FS2? Nope..
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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Vesper, that was a good analysis about the lessons of hubris above. That was the same thing I got from the game.

You're wrong on one minor point, though -- there was a small triumph: the recovery of the Knossos technology and the return to Earth.
No, I'm not wrong about that point, as you'll note I mentioned why they rationalized keeping the portal open originally.  It's just that the only bright part of Petrach's ending monologue didn't really have anything to do with the ending of the game, which was my focus.  We didn't discover the secrets of the Knossos moments before Capella was overrun, or lose the system in order to acquire that knowledge.

We already had all the information we deemed necessary to recreate the Knossos back when the first Sathanas was headed for Gamma Draconis, so while that is indeed a spot of good news, it had nothing to do with the events during the endgame.  If it wasn't for an overweening pride in our technology, we could have finished the job of destabilizing the portal to the nebula when simply demolishing the Knossos didn't do the trick, sparing us the "journey into hell" (as Petrach put it) entirely.

Thus there was no victory at all to be found in Capella.
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That is the best first post I have ever seen.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Yep, if you're talking about Capella in particular, definitely true.

That said, I think I agree with most of the decisions made throughout FS2. Given the information available, I think they were calculated risks, and the fact that they didn't pay off doesn't make them absolutely idiotic.

 
Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Yep, if you're talking about Capella in particular, definitely true.

That said, I think I agree with most of the decisions made throughout FS2. Given the information available, I think they were calculated risks, and the fact that they didn't pay off doesn't make them absolutely idiotic.
Up until the decision to risk re-entering the nebula just to capture Aken Bosch and explore uncharted jump nodes, I'd tend to agree with you.  That decision smacks of somebody high up pursuing the GTVI's interests ahead of the safety and security of the entire GTVA.

But then again, SOC missions are so darn cool that I forgive them entirely, ha ha.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
But then again, SOC missions are so darn cool that I forgive them entirely, ha ha.

LOL.. Indeed. That's the only way to judge a good government. WAS IT INTERESTING? What happened during your rule? 4% tax drop? booooring? Look at the guys before you - we fought a freaking interstellar war of epic proportions! you are lamO!  :lol:
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Bahaha necro.

*ahem*

So, it seems that the "supernode" theory (note that supernode here means the creation of a new intersystem node through which the Sathanas fleet jumped) is not as widely accepted as I thought. This is interesting. It is also not the main reason I created this thread. I took it for granted that that was what the Shivans were doing.


So, that discussion is best saved for another topic. Let me revise my original post. IF it is accepted that the Shivans were creating a supernode, then do my conclusions follow? All Capella theories require some non-canonicity and speculation. How much speculation is needed for this theory?
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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
The Supernode theory, although not accepted by everyone, is the most likely, IMHO. I just can't figure out where the Saths would have gone without it. In 10 minutes (about the time the shockwave needs to get to the GDrax node), you can't withdraw 80 juggernauts. Not even the Shivans can do that; it's physically impossible.

Your original post makes a lot of sense. There is no canon evidence that denies it, and even Petrarch seems to point in that direction. And I don't think he was lying there, I do think :v: gave us some hints to the solution to the mystery.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 12:11:09 am by FreeSpaceFreak »

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
I'd hate to think that the "great mystery" of Freespace 2 was actually solved roughly two minutes after it got started, by means of Petrarch slapping us in the face of it with all the subtlety of a burlap sack.
-C

 
Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Luckily, it's only a tiny part of the solution on which Admiral Petrarch speculates. The larger questions still remain: Where did the Shivans go? Why did they go there?? And... Will we ever see them again???

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
I reckon the entire Supernode theory is a load of Horse Hockey!

I think the Sathanas fleet caused the Supernova, then made an intrasystem jump to subspace and waited there till the star had finished exploding - sort of like diving underwater to avoid tidalwaves.

I agree with the idea that the GTVA must have somehow butt f****d the shivans somehow...Destroyed ultra-vital cargo transports/Blown up the first Sathanas/pulled another away from it's post/Erased the E-Pegasai Node...whatever...one/some/all and/or other stuff caused the fleet to have to over compensate for the losses and something had to give...therefore some Sathanas got shut down.

My theory about the shivans is that they are testing us. \/

They are locked in an eternal struggle with an unseen enemy in another galaxy. Neither side is able to gain an advantage the war is deadlocked and has lasted several million years. In looking for a solution, Shivan stratagists hit upon a highly unorthodox idea - any race capable of defeating the Shivans would by definition be able to defeat their enemy. The only problem - such a race doesn't exist. The solution - go Darwinian the younger races on a Galactic scale until such a race emerges.

Basically the shivans are using Darwin's theory of Natural Selection on a Genocidal Scale. The unfit races are wiped out. Eventually a race will emerge capable of defeating them. The Shivans play a long game. The plan reads something like this:

Stage 1 - The shivans observe a race once it becomes subspace capable (Explains why Shivans didn't show up as soon as we discovered subspace)

Stage 2 - After an intermediate amount of time, the shivans launch an FS1 style offensive - a genocide wave. they devestate the fleets, then destroy the Homeworld(s), after which they goe back and take care of the survivors

Stage 3 - If the race Defeats Fleet from Stage 1 they then spend some more time watching during the subject race's rebuilding process

Stage 4 - Eventually, they attack Subject race again and see how the race fares against better warships. (The whole Rakshassa/Ravana business at the beginning of FS2) - This stage is a definate pass for the subject race

Stage 5 - When the Subject race beats Stage 4, The Shivans Send in a Radically stronger vessel (The Sathanas) and launch an attack in the style of Stage 2.

Stage 6 - If the Race survives stage 5, thay then launch what appears to be an all-out offensive with a fleet of Sathanas, but they then do something with real "WTF?!" value to see how the race reacts.

Stage 7-? cycles of rebuild then invade occur untill a race capable of defeating the shivans no-matter what stratagies or stunts they pull develops.

So basically what im saying is Capella was a giant reaction test.
My my reckoning, the Ancients didnt get past stage 2 and the GTVA may be the first in our area of the galaxy to get past to stage 6 - which i reckon we passed

My basis for all this is 2 things
one) the :v: quote that the shivans were only part of the bigger picture
Two) Every time we fight the shivans, our tech gains vast improvements

FS1 - Thanks to the Shivans we gain
1)Shields and anti-shield weaponary
2)Enhanced normal space tracking abilities
3)The ability to track ships into subspace (Via the Ancients)
4)Fighter size intersystem subspace drives
5)Beam Weapons(developed between games)

FS2 - We gain
1) Subspace Portal Tech (Again via the Ancients)
2) Shivan Comms Tech (ETAK)
3) Beginnings of Shivan Style Weapons (Kayser)

Not to mention the Hades or Sekmet which were shivan based, or the captured Dragons/Maras and others
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Except a race capable of beating the shivan enemies will also be able to beat the shivans.

It's an equalent of a guy releasing a wild lion from the cage and trying to get it to eat another guy.
the lion might tear him trough peaces instead of going after the other guy...or it might go after him, but who's to say it won't return after it's done?
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Erm...TrashMan. That's my whole point. Because they are able to beat the Shivans they are able the Shivan's Enemy.

I like your analogy...So what if the guy who released the lion didn't mind being eaten, so long as the other guy died...
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
I'd say that would make the guy very stupid...VERY stupid indeed. :lol:
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Erm... right. I won't springboard my theory in this topic into an additional alien race theory, I just want to know if my arguments are sound or not. There's no real way to tell what :v: was going to do, but are my arguments good guesses?
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Offline Aardwolf

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
A Nova is not the same thing as a SuperNova!

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Indeed it is not.

And?

 
Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
I think the reason only some jumped was because they didn't want us to be able to completely evac. If they had all fled, we would have known something wasn't right.
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Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
They already knew something was wrong. Petrarch was speculating the charging of a weapon of mass destruction never seen before. Possibly the smaller Shivan ships were merely being a nuisance in order to take as many Terrans and Vasudans with them as they could.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
11:51 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has left #hard-light []

 

Offline terran_emperor

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TRUE SHIVAN

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Re: "Aftermath of Aftermath of Capella", or "Nova and Again"
Possibly the smaller Shivan ships were merely being a nuisance in order to take as many Terrans and Vasudans with them as they could.
Possible... Or they didn't want any witnesses to survive... :nervous: