[karajorma]

I don't see a contradiction. The vertical component stuff was talking about once the nebula gets big enough that you can't treat it as a point mass any more if you are outside the nebula. That's going to take years if not hundreds of years.

What I'm saying is that there are three possible ways the destruction of Capella could affect the entire subspace node network.

1) Instantaneously - The node network figures out that Capella was destroyed by signals propagated through subspace. Nodes may become unstable instantly.
2) Speed of light(ish) - Some percentage of Capella's mass will be moving in the second blast wave. Not sure how much it is or whether its a negligible amount not to mention neutrinos and all manner of other stuff. Possibly could have an effect on nodes.
3) Gravitational effects (not at all certain on the time scale for these). - As far as I can tell eventually you can't consider Capella's nebula as a point mass where Capella used to be. Not sure when this is. It might only be once other stars are actually within the nebula or it might be earlier.
  AFAIK nebula from supernovae tend not to be spherical (planetary nebulae often are spherical or toroid but most supernova nebulae I've seen pictures of seem to be lopsided) So that's gonna have an effect too.

[AlphaOne]

You guis make my head go spoaaaaaaaaaadddsssssss. I can figure out 80% of what you said. Never liked math or pshisics therefore i suck at th respective areas. Could you well put it in DUMB language so that all of us non math/pshisics genoiuses could understand it???

[TrashMan]

Sure, here's the translation:

"duuuuh...uuuuuu--arrrrgh...drooooool gweaaaaah" . oh, no wait..this was in retard language..you wanted just stupid right? Damn, sry, I can't speak that one

[karajorma]

In non technical language I'm saying that if the destruction of Capella does cause the nodes to change stability in other systems it can happen almost instantly or take thousands of years to have an effect.

In the Capella system the changes would only occur after the shockwave has passed that point in space. So people who think that the Shivans can't have left via the Gamma Draconis node because it would have closed the second Capella blew up are probably wrong. The node wouldn't notice a difference in the gravitational field until the shockwave got there. It wouldn't collapse instantly.

[AlphaOne]

Oh I see.

OH and TMan youre mean as usual.

Also I happen do disagree with you. If the node would of noticed the change in gravitational forces instantly then the node would of colapsed instantly. However how much does it take for a gravitational abnormality of this magnitude to be felt by anyone or in this case the node?
If it would of colapsed after the shockwave would of passed by how much time is that?

Would the shivans have time to jusp to the node then enter the node to jump out again? Mneaning reacharge period and stuff....these are all unknowns i would say!

[karajorma]

Also I happen do disagree with you. If the node would of noticed the change in gravitational forces instantly then the node would of colapsed instantly. However how much does it take for a gravitational abnormality of this magnitude to be felt by anyone or in this case the node?

That's the point. The supernova shockwave travels at lightspeed. Gravity also travels at lightspeed (Or relativity is wrong) so there is no way the node can know Capella has exploded until the shockwave gets there.

If it would of colapsed after the shockwave would of passed by how much time is that?

Depends on where the node actually is. It takes light 8 minutes to get to Earth and several hours to get to the outer planets. So the Shivans could have had hours to evacuate through the Gamma Draconis node. Now look at how many arrive in the 15 minutes that you spend in Shivan space in Into the Lion's Den.

[AlphaOne]

That is...err....that means that all those fat bastards 8 leggede freacks had more then enough time to escape before the shokwawe hit them. I dont like this one bit.

[TrashMan]

OH and TMan youre mean as usual

Mean? Read it again, you're missing the obvious joke (directed at myself no less).

[AlphaOne]

Well i got the joke but i still think you have a mean bone in you somewhere

[eliex]

                                                                       

[WMCoolmon]

You guis make my head go spoaaaaaaaaaadddsssssss. I can figure out 80% of what you said. Never liked math or pshisics therefore i suck at th respective areas. Could you well put it in DUMB language so that all of us non math/pshisics genoiuses could understand it???

What I'm saying (and I've now checked this against other sources as well) is if Capella were to become a perfectly spherical nebula, a ship outside the nebula wouldn't feel any difference. Similarly, if it were to become a black hole, neutron star, etc there would be no difference on that same ship. This is excluding any matter converted to energy during the explosion, or any matter that got moved around from the planets being destroyed.

Basically what it means is that blowing up the sun probably wouldn't affect the area that you could use subspace without a node, or if anything, it would make it smaller. So it's not a reasonable motive for the Shivans to have destroyed Capella. (Which is progress, at least we can rule something out)

[Agent_Koopa]

Whaaaaaa? THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT. We need to write this down somewhere. It has just been proved that the Shivans could have escaped Capella had they jumped in time!

[terran_emperor]

How do we know that those sathanas even jumped out of system? For all we know, they could have just made an intrasystem jump to avoid the supernova shockwave, then jumped back in into to the resulting nebula - like diving underwater to avoid a tidalwave for example. Then they piece together their equivalent to a knossos round the collapsed nodes

[FreeSpaceFreak]

The shockwave reached the GDrax node in under 15 minutes. Why?

Play a mission which takes place there, near the GDrax node in Capella. High Noon, for example. Now take a good look at the star. Note that it looks suspiciously much like our sun. That means you - and therefore the GDrax node - at about the same distance from Capella as the Earth is from the sun, 8 light-minutes. Say 5 to 15 light-minutes, to have an acceptable margin.
That means that the Shivans would have had only 5 to 15 minutes to evacuate.
Now play Into the Lion's Den. Count the juggernauts jumping in (about 5, IIRC). That number could have left Capella in time. The others would have been destroyed.

As for the intrasystem jump theory, play through the main campaign again. Write down any mission which does not take place at about the same distance from the star. None.
Subspace seems to be limited to a thin sphere, and most likely even a small ring, around the star. It's speculation, but there is nothing that denies it. Prove me wrong, anybody.

I do think that the supernode theory is the most likely.

EDIT: Clarified my post a little bit, so that Snail can understand it too

[Snail]

The shockwave reached the GDrax node in under 10 minutes. Why? Play a mission which takes place there. High Noon, for example.

High Noon was in Capella. Just blew your whole theory open.

[TrashMan]

Even if the shivies had an HOUR they couldn't have evacuated all the Juggs.

1. They are slow
2. They have the jump in a bit from the node then travel to it and THEN jump
3. They can only jump out 1 by 1.

[Snail]

And if it was a supernode?

[FreeSpaceFreak]

The shockwave reached the GDrax node in under 10 minutes. Why? Play a mission which takes place there. High Noon, for example.

High Noon was in Capella. Just blew your whole theory open.

Snail. That's exactly what I'm saying.
I know that your post count is greater than mine, but let me make something clear: when I say the GDrax node, i mean the subspace node leading to Gamma Draconis.
I KNOW that High Noon is in Capella. It's near the GDrax node in Capella. It's what my whole theory is about.

And the GDrax node in Capella is NOT (repeat, NOT) a supernode. The GTVA would have known that.

[TrashMan]

I was referring to the "OMG, the shivan thing went wrong and kablooie and they jumped to GD node to evacuate" theory.

Possible, but there's no way in hell you can evac all 60 juggs trough that node in time. You'd be lucky to get half out.

[terran_emperor]

And how do you know that there werent any uncharted nodes in Capella?