Author Topic: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?  (Read 11640 times)

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Offline eliex

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Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?

 Jeez, I really can't believe that merely yesterday that this thought occurred to me: I've played freespace since I was like . . . 9 . . .
And here it is < *something that is going to go BOOM the bubble's burst!* >: Why is the GTVA, are any other faction for that matter
pinned down to subspace? Or subspace nodes?

 Okay, I freely admit that I don't have a nerd's capacity to know all about subspace, so, please, correct me if I'm wrong:

1.  Those blue portals that materalise out of thin space when a ship appears or dissapears is an indicative of a subspace jump and can be done so without being next to a "jump node", i.e, anywhere.
 
 
Quote
According to Inferno Release 1, in the mission Nemisis, the final confrontation between the GTCa Independence and the EASD Nemisis, command clearly states that when the Nemisis jumps out for first time, the Nemisis is making a nano-subspace jump.

 So underlying Q: Can subspace be used anywhere?
 Followed up with: So what's the point of a jump node?

 < Don't get bored  :P >

   2. Nowadays, people can get around in space quite easily without subspace. So . . . if subspace is just a SUPAR fast way of getting around, then people can still live and move without it right?

         Since us Terrans are so worked up about the collapse of the Delta Serpentis-Sol jump node, why couldn't the GTVA assign this really massive ship loaded with food, petrol, helium, water, people, games, toys, dart boards, beds, whatever and make the LONG, LONG way back to Sol?
  Just use your engines and hey-ho! Eventually you'll get to Sol . . . just depends that you haven't died out of old age . . . that's all.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?

Can subspace be used anywhere?
 

No. In the Intelligence section of the Tech Room, under Subspace, it clearly states there are two kinds of jumps: ones within a star system, which require the gravity source (sun), and ones using jump nodes to go between star systems

As for #2,

Yes, they could have, but it'd be even easier to send a message and wait four years for it to arrive, and hope that earth does likewise.



Both of these have been discussed before.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 01:30:33 am by Aardwolf »

 

Offline Killer Whale

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
1. Well, terran ships are pinned to subspace nodes for trips to other systems, and can jump to anywhere in-system. But the shivans can use less stable nodes the like, some nodes form and dissapear in minutes (some in nanoseconds, others in millions of years) so a shivan ship can use these, but terrans can't, but for the games sake the shivans are safer to use stable nodes, many of which the terrans have marked out.

2. I can't be bothered travelling for centuries so only my great great great grandchildren reach Sol (estimate), by the time they got there, everyone would probably be dead that remembered it, and the others have lived on a space craft and call that home, there wouldn't be much point, lets just find a new way to get there, like a knosses device.

 

Offline eliex

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?

2. I can't be bothered travelling for centuries so only my great great great grandchildren reach Sol (estimate), by the time they got there, everyone would probably be dead that remembered it, and the others have lived on a space craft and call that home.

 Heh, like the average speed of a GTVA destroyer max is 15 metres per second!! :nod:

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
I believe that that may be for playability issues. I think in real life, their speed would be in km/s, and be able to cover something like 4000km in a matter of minutes. I mean the Apollo Spacecraft travelled fast than FS ships.
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Offline Killer Whale

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Yep, it wouldn't be that fun to travel the length of the largest space faring warship ever contrusted in a second!!

Edit: Replace But, with yep,, that makes a bit more sence and gives a bit more (a lot more) clarification on my meaning.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 05:47:00 am by Killer Whale »

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
like i said playability
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TRUE SHIVAN

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"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 
Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Quote
According to Inferno Release 1, in the mission Nemisis, the final confrontation between the GTCa Independence and the EASD Nemisis, command clearly states that when the Nemisis jumps out for first time, the Nemisis is making a nano-subspace   jump.
Referencing anything found in Inferno as support for an argument about canonical background universe elements will just result in somebody groaning, slapping their forehead, and then telling you not to do that because Inferno is not canon.

I could make a campaign that says subspace drives are powered by unicorns and fairy dust but that certainly doesn't make it true.
Everything is better with monkeys.  Even pie.

That is the best first post I have ever seen.

 
Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Uhm, I hope I'm not derailing this thread... but I've been wondering recently as to whether the GTVA or anyone else has a use for subspace other than as a fast way of getting from A to B, and maybe for communication. I mean, there's "realspace" and the GTVA has installations floating around in that, but why not have bases in subspace? It's like a another universe to explore in a way... All we see in game is that it's a tunnel but I think it would be well cool to have things like hidden bases and such in subspace. I reckon I've been thinking about hyperspace in B5 too much.

EDIT: Hmm, then again if subspace travel is fast then maybe there's no need to have bases in it to act as refuelling points or service stations, and if it is just a tunnel, formed when an object generates a subspace field or whatever, then I suppose there's no point hiding something in it as someone would travel by it eventually. I guess I'm wondering: what's beyond those subspace tunnels? And can it be explored and inhabited? Who knows. No-one probably.  :blah:
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:24:27 pm by lostllama »

 
Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
As to that, I think the point is that when a realspace ship jumps into subspace, it pulls a "bubble" of realspace along with it, preventing a catastrophic compression of the ship into a microscopic size.

The way I understand subspace is, that it is a hyper-compressed version of realspace. Traveling 1 km in subspace is equivalent to something on the order of billions of km in realspace. The ships aren't moving any faster when in subspace... merely taking a shortcut, you might say. However, some realspace has to be dragged into subspace with the ship, or they'd be hyper-compressed too... which would likely result in death. The "tunnel" we see is the boundary between the realspace bubble and unaltered subspace.

So beyond the bounds of the subspace tunnel is "normal" subspace, an area that would be quite lethal to any realspacers. Not much point in going there.


However, the GTVA does seem to use subspace for communications as well. Think about it... you get near-instantaneous responses from Command, even though we all assume Command is well on the other end of the system (they obviously wouldn't be right there in the battle with you). From that distance, radio waves would take hours, days, maybe even weeks to cross, so they can't be using radio, but FTL communications, which likely means subspace.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:55:17 pm by Dark Hunter »
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
(they obviously wouldn't be right there in the battle with you).

Unless...Command is actually the GTVA's version of Clippy. That would explain a lot, actually...

But seriously, :V: did go to some extra trouble to have Command transmitting messages from 3rd Fleet HQ in Dunkerque(?) so I believe the implication is that command is some guy back at HQ. That would mean transmitting clear across two systems and through a nebula in FS2, so subspace comms are the most reasonable explanation.
-C

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
My view is that the comms are relayed by the capships. That's why you can get signals from command in Mystery of the Trinity when the Aquitaine is the only GTVA ship in the nebula but can't get them in Into the Lion's Den when the GTVA has no ships around to pass the messages on to you.

The alternative is that capships don't act as in-system relays and the reason for Command's silence in Into the Lion's Den is because there was nothing in the Nebula to pass the message on through the knossos portal to you and Snipes.

 (I suppose it could also be due to an incompatibility with whatever comm system they stuck in the Maras but you were able to talk to Command in Playing Judas).


Whichever one it is I can see some interesting missions being based around the idea that you need something in a system to relay messages.
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Unless...Command is actually the GTVA's version of Clippy. That would explain a lot, actually...

Who's Clippy?

I agree with Karajorma. The Comms Link to Command is Relayed to you by the nearest friendly Cap-ship in system
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TRUE SHIVAN

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"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
But we're still assuming they're subspace-based, right? I don't see much way around that, unless we assume that 'Command' is moving from system to system, and is always at the node one system behind or close by in the same system as Alpha 1.

Which seems rather unlikely. :p
-C

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Yeah. I can't see them being anything other than subspace. Communications across a system would take hours even at light speed.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Quote
Who's Clippy?

That annoying animated helper in Office 2000.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Or Command as we see him is really an omniprescent Computer. All GTVA ships maintaining an uplink with it.

However, for missions like ITLD or other SOC missions, where you are in sesitive situations, the Uplink is closed down by Allied ships involved.

I've also worked it out. cos i was bored

Them moon is over 250,000 miles away from earth. Apollo travelled it in about 3 days

at 15 m/s a GTD/VD travels 900 m/min
-->54000 m/hour
-->1296000 m/day
-->3888000 m/3days = 3888 km/3days

1.6 km to the mile
that puts a GTD/VD at 2430 miles every 3 day
810 miles every day
At that speed, it would take a destroyer 309 days to reach the moon.
Therefore as i said earlier, in Real Life the ships would travel MUCH faster
The only reason they travel so rediculously slow is because of playability

Quote
Who's Clippy?

That annoying animated helper in Office 2000.

Is he that annoying paper clip
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 08:10:48 am by terran_emperor »
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TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Quote
Is he that annoying paper clip

Yep, although he is a changeling and can take many forms, his most common is a paper clip, hence his name.


Anyway, the GTVA uses subspace because there really isn't anything better. With subspace it doesn't really matter how fast capships are since they can jump anywhere in the system instantly.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Yes but if their Jump drive is DESTROYED, then they have to walk home, so to speak. At the in game speeds, it would take a destroyed almost a year just to get from the earth to the moon (Unless someone onboard has the series on DVD  :lol:) [And if they were forced to walk back to Earth halfway from Mars, It would take years] I say that in real life a destroyed would be able to cover that distance in about a day, Cos Apollo was just using momenum and course corrections. Corvettes and cruisers, even faster.

For a short hop like that, subspace wouldn't be used

Now for longer distances, ie mars, which currently is a 2 year trip, Subspace would be use
e = m csarged - Relativity according to Sarge [Red vs Blue]

TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Is the GTVA pinned to subspace?
Quote
Yes but if their Jump drive is DESTROYED,


Then they call in another ship to bring technicians and spare parts. In a combat situation they're dead, like what happened to the Galatea in FS1.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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