[TrashMan]

Oh yes, I've seen teh "epic" mage battles..

*counterspell*
*counterspell*
*death combo 1*

EPIC WIN.

[Raven2001]

...And wheres the challenge of the PvP ive seen in WoW where people basically are spamming skills and hope they have a better skillset?...

WoW PvP is very skill dependent. Not "skill" like "character ability," but "skill" like dexterity and knowing your class, your opponent's class, and being able to exploit his mistakes, or use your skillset creatively.

Especially with the skill (and this time the "character ability" type) unbalancing issues I hear WoW players moan about all the time...

[TopAce]

Those must be players who have not bothered to learn to use their classes' potentials.

[Marcus Vesper]

Lol true

Also, theres another factor I forgot to mention: money

The idea of paying monthly in order to play a game is ridiculous. I might be a casual player, who only plays 5 hours a week, and Im paying the same as the hardcore guy next to me.
Also, blizzard can kiss my ass and come with their "your paying for server maintenance and regular updates" cock and bull story, and I wont buy it.
I dont play fees, and I have my server maintenance (in fact I dont have half the problems of the WoW players I know) AND I have my regular updates. For the bigger updates I can buy my access to them or not... just in the same way the WoW players pay for their expansions.

Oh and of course the anti-blizzard sentiment... sorry but nowadays they are a company just like EA: hollow, uncreative

I'm with you all the way on this one, though I should point out that the lead designer for World of Warcraft left Blizzard shortly before it's release (along with other Blizzard staff members) to form ArenaNet and thus Guild Wars.  Essentially they decided they could do better.  I think they've succeeded.

[Admiral_Stones]

Those must be players who have not bothered to learn to use their classes' potentials.

C'mon. Rogues sneak up on everybody, do one-to-two hit kills and always keep talking HOW INCREDIBLY UBER MEGA 1337 they are.
Paladins always keep moaning because everybody hates them and are a priest's and a warrior's bastar child.
Hunters, well, there aren't any hunters, they are all bots anyway and have exceptional talent for wiping the party.
Warriors are dumber then a piece of flying **** and are good for nothing then standing still and let bosses beat squaremeter big holes into them.
Priests are, in fact, only good as healer, and if you don't treat them very very nice, they won't heal you. They also moan because they don't do any damage.
Magi do so incredibly high damage that just any idiot can stun somebody and a mage will hit it for over 10k damage. They are also famous for spamming Arcane Explosion and other instant AoE spells.
In a nutshell, the game does not encourage team play, it enforces it, because if you are alone, you don't have a flocking chance.
As for me, I was actually gold. My lvl 70 Night Elf warrior had the T6 Armor set, Twin Blades of Azzinoth and a shield I dont remember. The parts that weren't covered by T6 were covered by T3. I spent incredibly much hours on this, and now I seriously hate me for wasting all that time. BTP: Even if you have all this equipment, your warrior is essentially STILL only a tank. And looking heavy armored and nice just = to having more ****ing beggars on you.

[Asuko]

That basically kills my future interest in even trying to care about playing WoW.

[TopAce]

Those must be players who have not bothered to learn to use their classes' potentials.

C'mon. Rogues sneak up on everybody, do one-to-two hit kills and always keep talking HOW INCREDIBLY UBER MEGA 1337 they are.
Paladins always keep moaning because everybody hates them and are a priest's and a warrior's bastar child.
Hunters, well, there aren't any hunters, they are all bots anyway and have exceptional talent for wiping the party.
Warriors are dumber then a piece of flying **** and are good for nothing then standing still and let bosses beat squaremeter big holes into them.
Priests are, in fact, only good as healer, and if you don't treat them very very nice, they won't heal you. They also moan because they don't do any damage.
Magi do so incredibly high damage that just any idiot can stun somebody and a mage will hit it for over 10k damage. They are also famous for spamming Arcane Explosion and other instant AoE spells.
In a nutshell, the game does not encourage team play, it enforces it, because if you are alone, you don't have a flocking chance.
As for me, I was actually gold. My lvl 70 Night Elf warrior had the T6 Armor set, Twin Blades of Azzinoth and a shield I dont remember. The parts that weren't covered by T6 were covered by T3. I spent incredibly much hours on this, and now I seriously hate me for wasting all that time. BTP: Even if you have all this equipment, your warrior is essentially STILL only a tank. And looking heavy armored and nice just = to having more ****ing beggars on you.

I agree on the Rogue part, but not on the others.

Magi have very low HP, so a well-timed Fear, Stun, or Interrupt will mean their doom.
Paladins do not deal that much damage, and while they are bubbled, they cannot attack, and that does not even defend them from Magical attacks (so I hear, I don't know since I'm a Hunter)
Since Priests deal low damage, they are dependent on their abilities to heal themselves, so it does take some skill to play as a Priest.
If a Warrior is dumb, it is not because of the class's weakness, but the players who play it. Warriors require skill and experience to play as, since the whole Rage thing makes you reconsider which skills to use, when, and against who.
You didn't even mention Warlocks, perhaps because you know your "WoW requires no skill whatsoever" argument has no leg to stand on in regards of Warlocks. Warlocks are perhaps the hardest to play. They have a lot of spells, each good under certain circumstances. We also have to consider Warlocks' pets. They also have to control a pet at the same time they control their own character. As a Hunter, I know how difficult it can get, especially when someone catches you by surprise in world PvP. Not only do you have to remain calm and use spells and special attacks that fit the situation - instead of pressing keys like mad, hoping you will deal more damage and take less - but you also have to manage your pet.

[Depth_Charge]

Warlocks can pwn almost everyone if they know how to play it right.   On my lock i just dot, dot, dot, fear, deathcoil.  drop him.   use my felguard pwn them even more 

[Raven2001]

I'm with you all the way on this one, though I should point out that the lead designer for World of Warcraft left Blizzard shortly before it's release (along with other Blizzard staff members) to form ArenaNet and thus Guild Wars.  Essentially they decided they could do better.  I think they've succeeded.

Yes indeed. In fact they left and split. Some formed Arenanet (Guildwars), and Flagship Studios (Hellgate).... Both of them succeeded in making better games than WoW.

Honestly, only thing that keeps giving all that money to Blizzard is their name, and the hard work done by those folks who left. Blizzard doesnt have any kind of creativity nowadays (just look at tehir most recent games, ripping off other game's features, sometimes indeeed improving them a bit... they do have the cash to allow that after all). Buying and playing Blizzard games nowadays is like supporting EA, as far as im concerned.

As far as WoW's classes, I really can't say anything since I didnt play it enough to be acquainted to them. However, what I've read  about the Rogues and Warlocks power level is exactly what my friends told me before.

As for the other classes, guess that they are more prone to getting bad players, happens in every MMO to be honest (kiddies going warriors, etc).

[Admiral_Stones]

Warlocks can pwn almost everyone if they know how to play it right.   On my lock i just dot, dot, dot, fear, deathcoil.  drop him.   use my felguard pwn them even more 

See? This proves of absolute leet skill involved playing WoW [no offence on depth charge though]

[NGTM-1R]

TopAce, you kind of failed to refute his main point.

[Raven2001]

The one that theres cross class balance issues? Yeah noticed that myself.

But anyways, im not overly worried about it. Ive tried WoW for a couple of hours, and played Guild Wars for TONS of hours. Means that although im not too versed as far as WoW is concerned, but I did try it and grasped the fundamentals of its gameplay... which were rather poor and unoriginal, flawed, boring.

The facts are that I know of GW players who are ex WoW players (can you figure why they changed?) and will never touch WoW again. I also know some ex GW players who changed to WoW... guess what they were all 15\16 year old kids without a life (no offense to those by the way ).

As long as he keeps convincing himself that WoW is "da ****s" he wont even bother trying the others... but in the end hes the one paying X dollars a month to play an unbalanced grindfest, and Im the one who doesnt spend a penny playing a more stable, balanced and player skill dependant game.
And also im not paying a penny for an entirely new gameplay system, instead of another Ultima Online clone.

So in conclusion:
Im happy
Hes happy
We're all happy

Ta Ta


P.S. oh if u care to try something else, I believe Arenanet is still giving away 2 week trial keys of Guild Wars, and your free to contact me in game if you try it out (left my IGN earlier in the topic).

[TopAce]

TopAce, you kind of failed to refute his main point.

What main point?

[Raven2001]

The one that theres cross class balance issues?

That one I believe

[Gloriano]

Yes indeed. In fact they left and split. Some formed Arenanet (Guildwars), and Flagship Studios (Hellgate).... Both of them succeeded in making better games than WoW.

now how's hellgate is better than WoW? played hellgate for a bit and the whole game just so damn boring, but maybe i do find playing futuristic London that was attacked by demons little boring.

Honestly, only thing that keeps giving all that money to Blizzard is their name, and the hard work done by those folks who left. Blizzard doesnt have any kind of creativity nowadays

Well Arenanet and flagship studios aren't very creative either hellgate is an diablo clone in future and Guildwars is like well all MMO's but is free.

[Flipside]

WoW isn't alone in this, I play Eve online from time to time, though I'm not hardcore, one can only click target, shoot, target, shoot so many times in battle, and one can only stare at yellow mining beams going 'Whhhoooommm' into rocks for so long...

[Raven2001]

Never played Hellgate so cant say how good it is from my part.

As for GuildWars, yes its an MMO (duh), but its not the point. EVE is an MMO too does it make it unoriginal?
Guildwars is original due to the different gameplay that it offers you in an MMO (single player games already have some if not all of GW's main features) : characters are composed of two classes (more diversity... and lots of it), you can only take 8 skills at a time, you dont have to level up in order to play PvP (you can create an already max level, max equip character just for pvp... you unlock skills and weapon mods trough playing in PvP), among others...

So yes, GuildWars is an original MMO

[Flipside]

Well, in Eve's case, it openly plays homage to Elite, but the depth of it is incredible, that's it's main redeeming feature, the downside is that getting out of the shallows and into the 'real' stuff like PCorp owned stations, research, design etc, like Warcraft, can almost exclusively only be performed by groups of people as a corporation. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, the market would be flooded with T2 Blueprints and faction Battleships if it were too freely available, but it does make the game extremely daunting to a newer player, and even to some older ones.

[colecampbell666]

How is Eve? Is it worth 10-15$ a month?

[Flipside]

It is really down to personal taste, I was playing it a lot at first, but once the novelty had worn off, like most games, I found myself playing it less and less to the point where I cancelled my account for about 4 months because I was never playing it. Returned recently and it's interesting again, but there's still the same 'grind' factor as most other MMOs.