[Kosh]

http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/01/18/1636232.shtml


summary: it's all going downhill.


Any thoughts?

[Polpolion]

From what I've seen at my high school, either you're doing really well and excelling in science or you're a complete idiot. I'd say there is about a 1:5 ratio, respectively. There is no denying that people are getting stupider in the US (even I can't deny that), but that doesn't mean there still aren't the few relatively smart people.

Me personally, I'm in an honors science class, and I'm on the science olympiad team () at school. I'm doing all I can, but it's up to our government to do the rest (we're screwed forever).

[Davros]

Me personally, I'm in an honors science class, and I'm on the science olympiad team

science is an olympic event

[Ford Prefect]

Well, actually, Davros, the Olympics are a scientific event! It's pretty wild!

[Polpolion]

Me personally, I'm in an honors science class, and I'm on the science olympiad team

science is an olympic event

Assuming you meant to put a question mark at the end of that sentence, no, not really. It's just an over-dramatized way of saying "hey if you want to take some extra lectures on science, you can come here."

[achtung]

stupider

Anyway.

I blame it on the low value at which people hold education, and the extreme number of distractions available.  Every piece of media in the U.S. is designed to be as addictive and viral as possible.  This is bad if you want anything productive done.

Also, people are spoiled.  A good education isn't valued over monetary wealth in most cases.  This causes them to be lead toward the profitable and not the educational.

[MP-Ryan]

The science curriculum in the United States is severely hampered by the religious vote as well.  Not only are the sciences still seen as "geeky" and a stepping stone to careers in medicine and nursing rather than a career in the sciences themselves, but you're also dealing with a great deal of apathy from the people who should be learning it and a great deal of antagonism from the people who don't want to see it taught.

A professor of mine once spoke to his colleagues at Rice, in Texas, and he mentioned the material we were covering in a 400-level developmental genetics class.  His friends were shocked - they not only wouldn't teach that material until 2nd year Masters level, but said that their undergraduate students did not have the background to understand it even if they had wanted to.

It's not just the sciences that suffer, it's all education (I think everyone is aware of the terrible material on international affairs and world history taught in the US).  Even American teachers acknowledge that it seems the only way a student in the US can be guaranteed of a proper education short of private school is the IB program, which itself is seriously flawed.

And don't even get me started on the districts where they want to teach ID in the science curriculum.  *bangs head against wall*

[Kosh]

A professor of mine once spoke to his colleagues at Rice, in Texas, and he mentioned the material we were covering in a 400-level developmental genetics class.  His friends were shocked - they not only wouldn't teach that material until 2nd year Masters level, but said that their undergraduate students did not have the background to understand it even if they had wanted to.

It's Texas, what do you expect?

Even American teachers acknowledge that it seems the only way a student in the US can be guaranteed of a proper education short of private school is the IB program, which itself is seriously flawed.

Why is the IB program flawed?

The science curriculum in the United States is severely hampered by the religious vote as well.  Not only are the sciences still seen as "geeky" and a stepping stone to careers in medicine and nursing rather than a career in the sciences themselves, but you're also dealing with a great deal of apathy from the people who should be learning it and a great deal of antagonism from the people who don't want to see it taught.

The good old American idiot culture strikes again.


But really, I think part of the problem is that a lot of parents don't seem to give a damn about their childs education, and then when their child fails they blame the school for their lack of oversight. It is by no means the final answer, but it really doesn't help the situation.

[MP-Ryan]

Why is the IB program flawed?

Because it only exists to provide some form of standard of education in places where it may vary widely.

It doesn't guarantee post-secondary admittance, nor do all the course credits transfer to post-secondary.  It's a waste of time for anyone who has a half-decent high school, and it's an absolute tonne of work with little reward for those who do take it - kiss your free time goodbye.

[Dark RevenantX]

You don't need to tell me how lucky I am to live where I do in the States; I see almost none of this crap, ever.

[darkship]

Why is the IB program flawed?

Because it only exists to provide some form of standard of education in places where it may vary widely.

It doesn't guarantee post-secondary admittance, nor do all the course credits transfer to post-secondary.  It's a waste of time for anyone who has a half-decent high school, and it's an absolute tonne of work with little reward for those who do take it - kiss your free time goodbye.

As a current IB student i must totally agree with that.

[CP5670]

I don't think this is as big an issue as it's made out to be. The high school science curriculums are obviously lacking, but what is taught in high school is not really relevant to actual research output. There are various programs in place for people genuinely interested in the stuff (like the science olympiads thesizzler mentioned) and it's easy to learn things on your own with internet resources these days if you have the motivation for it.

Not only are the sciences still seen as "geeky" and a stepping stone to careers in medicine and nursing rather than a career in the sciences themselves, but you're also dealing with a great deal of apathy from the people who should be learning it and a great deal of antagonism from the people who don't want to see it taught.

This is a separate and probably bigger problem. If you're serious about a career in scientific research, it means doing a Ph.D. and in most cases looking for an academic job, where the competition is extremely tough. Unless you are exceptionally good, it's a big commitment and a lot of work without much in the way of reward. This is not limited to the US by any means and it's understandable why many people decide that such a track isn't for them, even if they are very interested in science.

[Davros]

I remember in school  we spent all this time passing light through slits to prove it was a wave - and then i find out light is a particle boy was i pissed

[Ford Prefect]

It's both. Did I just blow your ****ing mind?!

*Takes another hit.*

[Col. Fishguts]

In that case dont' tell him that every particle has also wave characteristics.
Oh shi-

[WMCoolmon]

The Heisenberg Insecurity Principle?

One of the things that I wish that I'd known was possible in High School is that you can (at least in some places) take courses at a local two-year college that do count for college credit.

[Kazan]

Any thoughts?

1) That is what you get when you let people push their religion into government
2) And you underfund education because "let the free market do it!"
3) and you think that "right to an opinion" means "right to not be ridiculed for thinking something moronic"