[The Spac]

Gotta remember that after the NTF made progress in the war the GTVA was considering having to make a comprimise, I believe that the GTVA fleet isn't massive otherwise they would of been able to instantly put down the NTF rebellion by sending 70% of their forces in there to just crush them. But when 10 Destroyers give the GTVA a run for their money then I would estimate there to probably be about 20-30 destroyers but with the frequency that they get destroyed there is probably more lol.

[Snail]

I don't think the GTVA fleet is exceedingly large. I'd agree with The Spac, 20-30 destroyers is a reasonable amount.

[The Spac]

As for the retraining of crews and how many personnel the GTVA should be able to bring to the party, these people living on the planets which would most likely hold the largest amount of the populations would very unlikely have spent ANY time in space. Going to space still in that future time wouldn't of been something you could of done in a whim. So for learning how to fly in space with a fighter would also have required quite a bit of training.

I would say that half the fighter pilots would probably come from "Spacer" type colonies that delt more with being in space with the other half coming from planets with large populations just because of the amount of submissions.

I would say that the technical crews for the large ships would mostly have come from the planets as they don't need to learn how to fly but know things about navigation and engineering more of the educational side.

This also leads to the way how Bosch was able to turn Sirius and Regulas against the rest of the GTVA so easily. Most people 250 million per planet or planetside anyway all wouldn't be travelling between systems and planets that they would have even cared about their neighbours. I would like to suggest that maybe colonies in the GTVA are a bit more inverted where most people care about local issues and only care about broad issues when their own security comes to mind.

Bosch gave the lost generation something to fight for this could of just been a massive recruitment drive of of displaced and non achieving unemployed youths who had no direction. One way to fix the local issue of no unemployment and such being on a fringe system still probably doing it tough after loss of earth. With all these new recruits all focused on trying to make their own planets better, they would all be loyal and it would of fixed many of the local issues and given Regulas and Sirius their broader security.

Also I believe this is one reason why there are so many old fighters in the NTF, not because they could only make old ones but because with the massive influx of recruits they probably started shipping people out in anything they could retrofit and even tho the fighters are 32 years old they all still give the GTVA's more advanced fighters a run for their money. So IMO the NTF fleet didn't just consist of the two GTVA fleets that changed sides but the NTF probably had a huge influx of old fighters and craft making them a serious more threat then two simple fleets.

[BengalTiger]

Well my idea about the huge amounts of old fighters in the NTF is that they were stored as mothball squadrons, not protected well, and were shipped into Bosch controlled space using some clever smuggling techniques.

Another thought: you can't just steal a bunch of GTF Perseus's without their pilots noticing, so the NTF had to focus on older units sitting in cargo containers, far away from civilisation.

[Mobius]

I don't think the GTVA fleet is exceedingly large. I'd agree with The Spac, 20-30 destroyers is a reasonable amount.

Exactly, that seems the most correct estimation.

We can't really speculate about the number of spacecraft, however. I don't think all of the spacecraft in existance are housed in destroyers/installations as there's a canon source(I don't remember it exactly, I think it was the table entry of a Vasudan bomber) suggesting the presence of plenties of spacecraft.

[AlphaOne]

The NTF did not get just Orion class destroyers they also got Hecate's and Deimos as well as loeads of cruisers.

The NTF was able to hold back the GTVA and even push it back beucase it had more skilled commanders and they only had to blocade the nodes with 2 orions ans a couple of corettes to inflict massive casualties ot the GTVA. Remember the nodes are bottlenecks . Sure the GTVA could of swarmed the NTF sistems eventualy but with massive casualties.

The Colossus was the only ship that could take on a node blocade and win hands down.

GTVA total fleetsa arent that small they are about 30 destroyers per race there however even those are few when considering the number that was lons during the NTF war an the fact that they have to be scattered all across GTVA space.

However should they have lets say 100 destroers easy then 50 of them could be the permanent war fleet whil the others could be scattered across all the GTVA sistems.

[Jeff Vader]

The NTF did not get just Orion class destroyers they also got Hecate's and Deimos as well as loeads of cruisers.

No, I don't think they had Hecates. Or it is possible, but there's no proof backing up the assumption. We've seen the NTF in possession of Orions, Deimoses and cruisers, but never Hecates.

But again it is wise to be careful with the ships numbers, unless one wishes to mark the GTVA as a cold, efficient military dictatorship.

[Snail]

No, I don't think they had Hecates. Or it is possible, but there's no proof backing up the assumption. We've seen the NTF in possession of Orions, Deimoses and cruisers, but never Hecates.

They do, in a multiplayer mission (which should be considered canon IMO). It was called the NTD Corsica.

[Jeff Vader]

Ah, my bad, then. Multiplayer is still on the To-Do list.

[BengalTiger]

But again it is wise to be careful with the ships numbers, unless one wishes to mark the GTVA as a cold, efficient military dictatorship.

Well the USA spends more cash on the military than ....



...almost everybody else combined

And it's not a "cold, efficient military dictatorship."

[Jeff Vader]

Have you seen the ship scale thread? If we take into concideration that thread and the fact that we're talking about space ships, fusion drives, weird laser weapons and such, I find it logical to assume that building a massive space-faring war fleet eats up way more resources than building planes that can shoot missiles at civilian targets. And assault rifles.

[AlphaOne]

Well there was this one thread that asmbled all the ships in game inclueding the ones the NTF had and there you could see a couple of Hecates ! some of them are from debriefings other form some other sources.

The NTF had to hold just 3 Nodes with the equivalent might of almost 6 or 7 fleets. And they could call upon fighter/bommber reinforcements from the bases in the sistem.

[Mars]

Have you seen the ship scale thread? If we take into concideration that thread and the fact that we're talking about space ships, fusion drives, weird laser weapons and such, I find it logical to assume that building a massive space-faring war fleet eats up way more resources than building planes that can shoot missiles at civilian targets. And assault rifles.

On the flipside however it is wise to assume that the GTVA has proportionally more resources at its disposal, considering it has many SOLAR SYSTEMS to strip mine, instead of one continent on one (small) planet.

[AlphaOne]

Also it is important to note they have HUGE spaceShypyards capable of building 6 km long warships or several smaller warships at once .

[Snail]

Well there was this one thread that asmbled all the ships in game inclueding the ones the NTF had and there you could see a couple of Hecates !

And that thread is canon how? There is only one NTF Hecate canonically, though any of the other ones mentioned in debriefings could be Hecates, though it is unlikely.

[AlphaOne]

Never said its canon i said that that list was made using canon information.

Also im still looking for at least a semi-realistic guess to how big the GTA/PVN fleets were during and after the 14year/First shivan war.

I mean if we have today that many Orions and the bulk of the GTA fleets were indeed already in Sol in an attempt to stop the Lucifer then how many Orions wwere based in Sol?  Dozens??

[Colonol Dekker]

I reckon that maybe at that point in time only one, optimistically three could have made it to Sol before the lucider. I'm assuming that as it was the industrial and economic hub for the gta there would have been one or two ships of at least cruiser class under construction too. Which system is the fred tutorial mission set in? Orions are built in pairs it seems

[AlphaOne]

what do you mean they are build in pairs???

[Admiral_Stones]

[...] One way to fix the local issue of no unemployment and such being on a fringe system still probably doing it tough after loss of earth. With all these new recruits all focused on trying to make their own planets better, they would all be loyal and it would of fixed many of the local issues and given Regulas and Sirius their broader security. [...]

I think it were more old 70 year racists brabbling about WW2, Vietnam, the Cold War and how every non-USA country is ****.

[Mobius]

That has been discussed before. There's one NTF Hecate to fight simply because it was a new experience for the player, who has never attacked a Hecate.