[Snail]

I think this may be reason for superiour Terran technology.

Not all Terran technology is superior. The Vasudans make better reactors and have faster ships, though the Terrans have more dangerous stuff.

[Mobius]

Simply because of the reasons I posted before...

[AlphaOne]

Actualy Vasudan reactors engines and to some degree the beams are considered to be superior to Terran ones.

The fact that one of the fastest and most powerfull ships and succesfull ships in game has at least in opart vasudan tech in it should tell something. Im talking about the Deimos of course. All that weapory on it was posible beause of th extra power that comes out of the reactors of the bloodi thing . Why? Beucase they are vasudan reactors and engines.

Also the Ganymed is not a terran instalation but a GTVA instalation.

Also Vasudans have fewet large cap ships because they actualy had to retire most of the old Typhon class destroyers. There are only a hand full of ships in existence today.

Again they started from 0 and went up.

On the other hand they have loads of cervoettes that they use even more often then cruisers lol.

[Snail]

Also Vasudans have fewet large cap ships because they actualy had to retire most of the old Typhon class destroyers. There are only a hand full of ships in existence today.

Again they started from 0 and went up.

On the other hand they have loads of cervoettes that they use even more often then cruisers lol.

That's all speculation. None of that is canon except the retirement of Typhon destroyers. Keep in mind the Vasudans may have had a few ships larger than the Hatshepsut but they never appeared because the fights of FS2 never occurred in core Vasudan space.

[AlphaOne]

We do have canon evidence about the DEimos's reactors and power sistems. And we do have canon evidence that Vasudan beams fire faster then terran ones. Altough they do just  bit less damage per shot they actualy do more damage in time due to their faster refire rate.


Also The building of Sobeks was started shortly after the end of the First Great war . The vasudans did that in order to build a ships acpable of dealing with enemy cruisers. While the Deimos is a much more recent design. So the Sobek ahs at the least 10 years ahead of the Deimos. So it would seem only natural they would have loads more. Remember the corvette classes were designed to replace the cruiser classes .

[Mars]

There's no proof that

Actualy Vasudan reactors engines and to some degree the beams are considered to be superior to Terran ones.

Because much of beams effectiveness seems driven by power, as seen in High Noon. The Deimos's beams for instance are technically inferior to the Sobek's, but it carries twice as many; suggesting that the Terrans traded off concentrated firepower in favor of well-distributed firepower.

The fact that one of the fastest and most powerfull ships and succesfull ships in game has at least in opart vasudan tech in it should tell something. Im talking about the Deimos of course. All that weapory on it was posible beause of th extra power that comes out of the reactors of the bloodi thing . Why? Beucase they are vasudan reactors and engines.

All that is said is that the Deimos uses an ultra efficient Vasudan reactor. It's efficiency and the fact that it's Vasudan may or may not have anything to do with each other. The efficiency may be do to Deimos class corvettes state of being "the newest addition to the Terran fleet."

Also the Ganymed is not a terran instalation but a GTVA instalation.

How is this realevent? I couldn't find a mention of the Ganymede anywhere else in this topic.

Also Vasudans have fewet large cap ships because they actualy had to retire most of the old Typhon class destroyers. There are only a hand full of ships in existence today.

Although you could be right, the little canon evidence out there suggests the opposite, that the Vasudans have a larger more established fleet, having a larger economy just after the Great War. They did in fact construct the Sobek immediately after the Great War. The Hatshepsut began manufacturing five years prior to Freespace 2, it's true that the given timespan is very short, but we know nothing of how long it takes to manufacture one, nor do we know how many production facilities the Vasudans have.  Combined with the fact that we don't really know how many Typhons remained in service, it's clear that there is no evidence to say the " Vasudans have fewet large cap ships"

Again they started from 0 and went up.

A handful is certainly not 0

On the other hand they have loads of cervoettes that they use even more often then cruisers lol.

Apparently they have enough corvettes to deploy a Sobek with every fighter squadron, with no repeats, for about 9 missions. They have been producing them since just after the Great War


Sobek's being ten years ahead of Deimos's could well be a sign of the economic situation after the Great War, and nothing directly about the technological situation.

[AlphaOne]

Sorry for the bad spelling but im sick as a dog and this kind of bad spelling is bad even for me! I can barely see what i tipe.  Sorry again.

also in the Tech Room at the description of the Deimos it says that is vasudan reactors produce more power then any ships reactors in existence. Also it is said that because of the extra power the Deimos is actualy able to achievi really high top speeds and is able to mount very powerfull weaponry .

So the 4 shlasher beams and the large number of other weapons on it are posible thanx to the huge amount of power its reactors produce.

The thing about the Typhon is pretty clear since it is said very clear that only a hand full exist to this day and most of them are asigned to patrol duties. With the prospect of them beeing completely replaced as the newer much more modern Hatshepsut class enters service . This sugests to me that the Vasudans have a shortage of large fleet warships (destroyers in this case) . However they are able to supliment this with the high numbers of Sobeks in existence.


The terrans on the other hand have even today enough Orion destroyers. This coupled with the new Hecates means that the Terans could in theory outnumber in terms of large warships the Vasudans .

However while it is up for speculation i would imagine the terrans actualy have very few Deimos class corvettes compared to the vasudans Sobek .


Why do i believe this? Simply because the Deimos and the Sobeks are suposed to replace the cruiser classes and while this is true to some extent for the vasudans  it is not so true for the terrans which continue to use cruisers in much greater numbers then corvettes.

So my belief is that at some point in time at least the old Leviathan and Fenris will disapear beeing completely replaced by the Deimos. As for the Vasudans they will just keep building Hatties to catch up to the terrans .

Howver there is one thing i do not understand or rather it is unclear . Did the GTVA actualy continue to build Orions after the colapse of the Sol node or are all those Orions just remnants of the ships left outside of Sol.

cuz if that is the case then the whole GTA fleet as a whole must have been HUGE! Much more then the current GTVA fleet.

[Mars]

also in the Tech Room at the description of the Deimos it says that is vasudan reactors produce more power then any ships reactors in existence. Also it is said that because of the extra power the Deimos is actualy able to achievi really high top speeds and is able to mount very powerfull weaponry .

No, it says "their Vasudan-designed reactor core provides more energy per ton than any other allied ship class"

The Deimos reactor puts out more energy per ton than ANY other allied ship class, Terran or Vasudan. It MIGHT be because it's Vasudan, but it might not be. It could just as easily be because the Deimos is the newest ship in the GTVA fleet.

So the 4 shlasher beams and the large number of other weapons on it are posible thanx to the huge amount of power its reactors produce.

Agreed, but since your premise that it has this much power becuase the reactor is Vasudan is flawed.

The thing about the Typhon is pretty clear since it is said very clear that only a hand full exist to this day and most of them are asigned to patrol duties. With the prospect of them beeing completely replaced as the newer much more modern Hatshepsut class enters service . This sugests to me that the Vasudans have a shortage of large fleet warships (destroyers in this case) . However they are able to supliment this with the high numbers of Sobeks in existence.

A handful is a realitive quantity, it could range from three to a hundred for all we know.

My point still stands that we don't know how quickly the Hatshepsut can be produced, and the Vasudans may have filled out their fleet entirely in five years.

We don't even know if the Typhon and Hatshepsut are the only Vasudan destroyers in service, there could well be more.

The terrans on the other hand have even today enough Orion destroyers. This coupled with the new Hecates means that the Terans could in theory outnumber in terms of large warships the Vasudans .

It obviously takes resources to keep destroyers active. Since the canon sources say that the Hecate is replacing the Orion, we can assume that for every Hecate produced, an Orion is decommissioned, much the same way the USN replaces it's ships. Therefore although we can assume the Terrans are at their target number of destroyers,  there's no evidence to say that the Vasudans aren't at their target number of destroyers.

However while it is up for speculation i would imagine the terrans actualy have very few Deimos class corvettes compared to the vasudans Sobek .

Why do i believe this? Simply because the Deimos and the Sobeks are suposed to replace the cruiser classes and while this is true to some extent for the vasudans  it is not so true for the terrans which continue to use cruisers in much greater numbers then corvettes.

So my belief is that at some point in time at least the old Leviathan and Fenris will disapear beeing completely replaced by the Deimos. As for the Vasudans they will just keep building Hatties to catch up to the terrans .

This may well be, there is little evidence for it but there is some. When the Actium and Lysander enter the nebula,  the player is led to believe I think, that they are the only Deimos class there, and that the Deimos class are regarded as a huge asset. As you pointed out the Terrans seem to use a lot of cruisers, but a lot of Terran ships the player sees are NTF, and therefore they might not have access to many Deimos's.

Howver there is one thing i do not understand or rather it is unclear . Did the GTVA actualy continue to build Orions after the colapse of the Sol node or are all those Orions just remnants of the ships left outside of Sol.

cuz if that is the case then the whole GTA fleet as a whole must have been HUGE! Much more then the current GTVA fleet.

There's nothing that says if Orion production was continued or not

[AlphaOne]

Mars about the whole reactor thingy come on dude what part of "its vasudan designed reactors" impleis to you that they might actualy be terran in design and not vasudan??

also the Hattie is a very new design barely 5 years old and we dont see them sayng its reactors produce this much power per ton. Why? Well perhaps it has something to do with the numbers of reactors that were fitted to the Deimos compared to those on a Hattie for example.

Also I agree with the lack of info regarding the continuation or not of the Orion class destroyers. However i believe that a clue could be handed to us from the fact that is says that ALL current Orion class destroyers have been retrofited with beam cannon weaponry. So i dont know what to believe.

If the Orion would of been produced after the Sol node colapsed then how many and to what degree since it is pretty obvious that at the time they stopped construction of the Orions beam cannon weaponry was not available. If they were available they were not implemented into the overall structure of the Orion but rather added on .

Also the phrase handfull coul mean they have pretty low numbers of them much more fewer numbers then the Hatties i would presume. Since the Hattie was refered to  as "a few of them have already been built at some point. Or am i just confusing ship tech descriptions??

anyway the fact that MOST Typhons were either destroyed or retired could mean that as many as 90% of them could be decomishioned or destroyed.


As for the Sobek yes i agree it was in production for much more many years then the Deimos thus we see more of them. Howver such shiops would best be used in pack's and not as sigle warships. since they are designed in an offensive nature can anyone say "wolf pack's" ? )

[Mars]

Mars about the whole reactor thingy come on dude what part of "its vasudan designed reactors" impleis to you that they might actualy be terran in design and not vasudan??

That is not what I said

I said that it was a good reactor

I said it was Vasudan

I said those two things aren't proven to be related.

Understand?

also the Hattie is a very new design barely 5 years old and we dont see them sayng its reactors produce this much power per ton. Why? Well perhaps it has something to do with the numbers of reactors that were fitted to the Deimos compared to those on a Hattie for example.

Proving my point about the Vasudan reactors not automatically being superior.

[AlphaOne]

Well what i wanted to say was that given the same amount of reactors but of terran origin could not produce the same amount of power ! And the fact that the same is not said about other warships must have something to do PERHAPS with the number of reactors used in each ship. Basicly 4 terran reactors would not produce the same amount of power as 4 vasudan reactors.

Also there is a strong implication from the tech room description that the reactors used on the Deimos are not necesaryli the same ones used on other warships. Perhaps they are newer in design and tech. But the fact that the terrans opted for vasudan reactors as oposed to terran ones does seem to imply that either they are more advanced of they produce the same amount of power etc. as terran counterparts but they might be smaller or cheaper or more eficinet in terms of fuel consumption.

Either way from what we gather from the tech room it is pretty clear that the Vasudans are slightly more skilled at building reactors and powergrids then terrans . Im sayng this asuming that terran equivalents might prove more expensive or more laborious to install who knows.

The tech superiority of the vasudans in terms of this area must not be looked upon as simply raw power given off by theyr reactors. There are many factors that can be taken into acount which could prove to be somewhat superior to the methods and skills of building said reactors by the terrans .

Also as far as joint projects go what of the Mjolnir cannons is it a joint terran-vasudan endeavour ??

What of the RBC platforms?

As far as other ships go i do believe there were someb bommbers and fighters that were a joint endeavour even if they were terran designated. I believe there is said at some point that some fighter uses vasudan reactor sistems to provide increased power to its gun's !

[The Spac]

The reason the Orions were retrofitted is because after they made the Hecate they went oh crap and realised their old ships were better and retro fitted them :-D

And probably one reason the Vasudan like to use Corvettes so much is because of the massive failer of the ATEN. After having to use that in their military campaigns as a Vasudan General I would be very putt off them and cruisers in general.

[Mobius]

The reason the Orions were retrofitted is because after they made the Hecate they went oh crap and realised their old ships were better and retro fitted them :-D

That doesn't make sense in the Universe, where the Hecate is far better than the Orion under all points of view.

[The Spac]

I know that reason was a joke.

[Mobius]

Well, many members don't know the truth(I thought you were one of them )

[NGTM-1R]

That doesn't make sense in the Universe, where the Hecate is far better than the Orion under all points of view.

That sounds nice, but it's not canonical. It's nowhere said the Hecates are regarded as vastly superior. Hell, it's nowhere said that the Orions have gone out of production yet for that matter. We assume so, but as a practical matter for all we can actually prove the GTVA is still building them.

[Akalabeth Angel]

     I dunno why people are comparing ships and saying this is better, or that's better. The Vasudan and Terran ships simply have different styles. As for the backstory and fluff. . .meh whatever. It's all pretty much meaningless. Shivans have strong shields and crap armour so AAAf can eat them to bits while they'll still put up a fight for Alpha 1. Terrans tend to have decent hull and decent shields, whereas Vasudans tend to have less shields and less hull but better manoeuvrability than the Terrans (that's the impression I get anyway). I don't think the Vasudans have stronger ships because they have less of them, they just have stronger ships because they like them that way. The Aten is tougher than the Fenris but weaker than a Levy but they only have the Aten so it's a middle road sorta cruiser for instance.

   
    As for the Colossus, well design stylings aside. It had a human CO for one reason, to better create empathy. I don't think the sense of urgency would really translate via the typical vasudan sorta voice wav. But some human dork saying "reactors at critical! Tertiaries failing, we're giving it all we got captain" or whatever sounds more exciting.

   No one seems to much care for the design of the Colossus (though I don't particularly mind it), so all the vasudan fans should be happy they have less association with that ugly hunk of junk. I've always preferred the Vasudan designs myself, which is partly why my campaign is sorta vasudan-centric. Can't get any sexier than a Sobek or Hatshepsut

[AlphaOne]

As a reference point the Collie deafeated the NTF pretty much on its own. The collie succeded at all its missions to which it was designed to handle meaning defeating large number of capships +fighters and bommbers smash through blocades and hold the line in case of need.

As for the Hecate whyle i do like the Hecate and its design the Hecate doesnt hold a candle to the Orion's beam cannons. And while fighter/bommber projections is important all to often some ship manages to get past the fighter bommber screen and tear Hecates to pieces.

This brings up my next question and that is what will be the next major terran-vasudan project ?

[Mawhrin]

I had a thought on this. Vasuda Prime wasn't a great place even before the Lucy arrived, so in order to survive the Vasudans probably had a history of working together. Terrans however have had a great planet, so they can aforrd to disagree more. More disagreements means more wars, and there's nothing quite like a good war to speed up technological advances. I think this may be reason for superiour Terran technology.

Entirely the wrong way around. Limited resources (metal ore, fresh water, whatever) mean fiercer competition for resources, and thus more wars.

[Jeff Vader]

As a reference point the Collie deafeated the NTF pretty much on its own. The collie succeded at all its missions to which it was designed to handle meaning defeating large number of capships +fighters and bommbers smash through blocades and hold the line in case of need.

Hmm. The Colossus surely scored some victories, but one shouldn't emphasise its part too much. The 64th Raptors, for example, took out numerous NTF capital ships and also did their part in trying to hold the Knossos against Bosch's evil schemes. And the original purpose of the Colossus was to stop the Shivans, should they return. Sure, in the Colossus cutscene it was stated that it will end all the conflicts swiftly and decisively, and it did, for the most part. But it didn't succeed fully, largely due to the GTVA's (understandable) inability to predict the existence of a Shivan juggernaut fleet.

This brings up my next question and that is what will be the next major terran-vasudan project ?

Probably reconstruction. And trying to find a place where they can stuff the Capella refugees.