[Roanoke]

I always love it when people assume that just cause you like Halo it means you can't possibly have played any other FPSs. It's like they believe that the very act of playing the game must have automatically erased the memory of any other FPS from memory.

The majority of the people who defend Halo so fervently are such fanboys that they indeed don't play other FPSs, much less games like Deus Ex.

I personally see Halo not as an absolutely crappy game, but more of one that's just below par (either that or I've gotten too used good games). I'd expect Halo to be a game you spend 10 USD on at a Wal-Mart bargain bin to pass time, not something you spend upwards $150 on getting the game, books, special Xbox cases, etc.

It's just that the afore mentioned fanboys that spend that $150 piss me off so much...

How can you compaire Halo to DeusEx ? They're completely different games. You may as well be compairing FreeSpace to MS Combat Flight Simulator. GrandPrix Legends to Sega Rally.

[TrashMan]

Halo was OK I guess...nothing special really..
When I compare it to other games I played, like Crysis, Half-Life2, Team Fortress, Tribes, etc, I can't really say it beats any of them in practice any segment.

Design is interesting - love the veichles and weapons design. But that's about it.

[phatosealpha]

How can you compaire Halo to DeusEx ? They're completely different games. You may as well be compairing FreeSpace to MS Combat Flight Simulator. GrandPrix Legends to Sega Rally.

In the end, they're all in competition for you money, so how could you not compare them? 

[karajorma]

The majority of the people who defend Halo so fervently are such fanboys that they indeed don't play other FPSs, much less games like Deus Ex.

And you're basing that assumption on what?

Have you actually asked anyone on this forum which FPSs they have played? Or have you simply decided that because they don't have the same taste as you it must be that they can't have played the games you have played.

[Polpolion]

The majority of the people who defend Halo so fervently are such fanboys that they indeed don't play other FPSs, much less games like Deus Ex.

And you're basing that assumption on what?

Have you actually asked anyone on this forum which FPSs they have played? Or have you simply decided that because they don't have the same taste as you it must be that they can't have played the games you have played.

I'm basing that assumption on all of the people who I've talked to at my school, which is quite a bit more than the people who are actively engaged in this discussion. But if you want to limit the data pool to only those here, fine; you win. None of said people have played games like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Freespace, much less listened to me when I explained my reasons. Sure people can have different tastes than me, but if people don't bother attempting to change other's opinions there really is no purpose to discussions or debates.

Okay so: How many people here play both Halo 1, 2, or 3 and other first person shooters (keeping in mind that the definition of play in this situation involves seriously playing said game for a period of time, as opposed to pick it up on the spur of a moment with a few friends for a half an hour of multi)? Admittedly, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone here responded positively to this question, but no one here honestly strikes me as a crazy fanboy. The people who I have encountered at my school, on the other hand...

EDIT: Keep in mind that my high school is a lot more diverse and large than most schools.

[IceFire]

Everyone is definitely entitled to say "yes I like that game" or "no I do not like that game" so what I think is most important is that people do not berate others for liking something they don't.  I don't get what all of the negativity about Halo is...it was successful, it wove a decent story in my mind, and it looked absolutely incredible while being fun at the same time.  There wasn't anything specifically special about it...just that it did allot of things in a very polished manner.  The people at Bungie are definitely what I'd call gaming artists...they know their craft and how to put together an entertaining title.

Obviously allot of people agreed with them by spending their cash on the series.

[karajorma]

Another thing that makes me laugh are the claims that Halo isn't special because it didn't introduce anything new. On a Freespace board! It's like people can't understand that you can like something just for doing something that has been done before very well.

[Colonol Dekker]

In answer to the question a few posts back i've played Halo+2+3, (i like the plot and it's fun in short bursts) halflife+2+eps, farcry, wolfenstein+rtcw, system shock+2, deus ex, (2 is pants) quake series (4 is pants) doom series (2 is best) perfect dark(both) Metroid prime series, Coded arms, metal gear solid series. (Metal gear on the nes is an artform and kids nowadays are nowhere ready to tackle it having been weaned on weak games like halo 1) but i still enjoyed it.

[TrashMan]

Another thing that makes me laugh are the claims that Halo isn't special because it didn't introduce anything new. On a Freespace board! It's like people can't understand that you can like something just for doing something that has been done before very well.

No, it doesn't have to introduce anything new - in this you are right.

FS has a great story and atmosphere, great graphics & mission design and gameplay...and I'm saying this while trying to be as objective as possible (remember, I used to LOATHE freespace).

Some people say you don't discuss taste - to this I say "Bollocks!" The only people who say that IMHO, are those who don't want their tastes discussed.
You can find mesurable qualities in everything and come to pretty accurate ratings. However, since people generally can't agree on anything, even factual stuff, then you can't expect them to agree on simpler and less "solid" stuff. That doesn't mean however, that all people have good tastes.

[Polpolion]

@Icefire: I'm not trying to berate people for their opinions, but admitedly it's rather difficult discussing something so subjective as the quality of a game. My main argument against the game is its awkward level design, closely followed by its linearity (all regarding the physical linearity, story, and action), and finally its at most average plot. A bunch of assorted, finer points here and there complement that, but it all adds up to not a crappy game (from a gamer's standpoint, not a purely objective one), but a mediocre game. Thus, the main reason for my outrage is in fact how overrated it is.

Undoubtedly it was an excellent game from a publisher's standpoint. Three games, a few books, almost a movie, and a boatload of obsessed fans.

@Karajorma: That probably wasn't addressed to me, given as it's not any of my main ideas, but that is interesting point. In addition to gameplay, Freespace's plot (or general premise) wasn't even all that original. It must be noted, however, how mod-able FS is compared such games as Halo. And while its story isn't the most original, it certainly is good, and yet not common enough to be overly redundant. Then there's the atmosphere inspired (especially in FS2's latter levels), the beam cannons, the bombing runs, the dogfighting...

[Dark Hunter]

Undoubtedly it was an excellent game from a publisher's standpoint. Three games, a few books, almost a movie...

That also means it was an excellent game to all the people who bought and created the sales that made sequels, books, and the possiblilty of a movie come to mind.

...and a boatload of obsessed fans.

The thing to remember is that there are a lot of unobsessed fans as well. I count myself as one of them: I do not proclaim Halo the "best game evah!!!!1111!one", nor am I blind to its faults. I also have had a ridiculous amount of fun with it, enough to make the flaws negligible. That's the mark of a great game.

I won't deny that there are obsessed fans out there, but FYI: the unobsessed fans hate them just as much as anyone else. They make people who are not fans stereotype the hell out of the fanbase.

I really REALLY wish people would STFU about how good a game is and just play the damn thing (or if they don't like it, just go play whatever games they do like), and not over-analyze it. One reason I despise game reviews... but who am I kidding? It'll never happen.

[Mefustae]

The thing to remember is that there are a lot of unobsessed fans as well.

But the problem is that the non-obsessed don't make any noise.

My beef isn't really with the games. I mean, the first one was pretty damn fun. I had a ball, you had a ball, we all had a ball. The second one wasn't too shabby, could of been better but could've been worse. The third one... I happen to utterly loathe because they neglected the single-player in favor pandering to the braying masses and focusing development time on the multi-player aspects. But regardless, it's a solid series in every sense of the phrase.

The problem is the fans. I mean, we - as in the gaming community as a whole - have seen the emergence of an entire subclass of n00b with the release of the Halo series. Loud and obnoxious fans are bad enough, but these people (and I hate to even use the term "people") are so loud and obnoxious that they are actually giving the entire gaming community a bad name in the eyes of the public. We all know it. Being a gamer is already something of a social stigma these days thanks to bad publicity, so the last thing we as a people need is Halo 'tards making it worse.

That is the reason I think Halo is one of the more detrimental things to happen to the gaming world in the past decade.

[haloboy100]

Notice how I'm not even taking part in this thread? Funny, isn't it?

I'm not going to read one paragraph of anything said here. I'm just going to say this:

Halo appeals to some people, and not others. Why? Because Halo focused on story. How does this affect my statement? Because there are some gamers that prefer their games to be epic and played out like a story; others just want to shoot and blow **** up. Halo appealed to so many people because it offered, in my honest opinion, a very good blend of both. And since i love both of those traits in a game a lot, that's why I think Halo is the best FPS out there, stuck closely with Half-Life 2. Why do the people who don't like Halo, hate it so very much?

Let's get this straight. Halo is not much better then other games that operated similarly, such as Half-Life. Half-Life itself was also a revolution. It was the very first game to implement story in a noticeable fashion(IIRC). It immersed you in it; everything from the realistic AI (which shocked me extremely the first time i played half-life a month ago, considering how old that game is), to the talking suit that told you stuff like "fracture detected" and "minor lacerations detected", which is only naming 2. Count that with it's good level design (well, it was alright), and other epic moments like being chased by an apache helicopter, and finally blowing it out of the sky (another thing i found really awesome), Half-Life sealed the deal on story driven gameplay.

How does this relate to my point? The point is, Half-Life and Halo are both incredible games because they are driven by storyline. The reason why I think Halo is better is because it simply did everything so much better. The graphics were great, and still good by today's standards, the AI was smart (for those of you that played legendary, you'll know what I mean), and etc.

But the biggest element of Halo, obviously, was it's immersion as well. But I'm talking stuff like environments, music, casting, and characters. You actually feel like you're talking to somebody with Cortana; you hold mystery about chief's character, but you still think he's kick ass and you can trust him with a gun. The covenant are a huge religious alien alliance bent on destroying outsiders. You actually know you're walking on a huge floating ring with terrestrial ground on the inside (due to the fact you can see it arcing up from the horizon. Something that I found - coin of phrase- totally ****ing sweet.). Couple that with perfectly suiting music, good voice acting, and a story with a relative amount of originality and surprises, and you got one hell of a game.

So, yeah, if Halo is the biggest **** to come since sliced bread, how come not every single damned person in the world loves it as I do?

Duh. Because everybody is different. Some people just don't like to have to deal with a (to a sense) complicated story to fuel their game play. Maybe they don't give a **** about environments or music. I don't really know, but you know what? That's great. I respect those people for having their own opinions. If somebody doesn't like Halo, then that's pretty fine. And I'd fight for that poor sucker's right to have his own opinions, because Halo fanboys will hate them just because he doesn't sleep with a Halo CD in their hands(beilieve me. some of them do.). It's these people that would rather play something likeUT2004 (also a very sweet game) instead of Halo, or maybe not even an FPS at all. And they would probably love it that much too.

Halo has a bad vibe about from the people who don't play it cause most of the fan boys are just assholes. Yes, I'm talking about the *****ing stuck up punks that brutally hate everybody else that thinks twice about loving Halo. Personally, being a twelve-year-old-playing-halo-noob myself once, I'd love to skewer these guys to a wall with a rake. That's why I stay the hell away from Halo's multiplayer; Cause they're all a bunch of stuck-up cheating bastards that have no sense of recreation or fun- the very reason video games are around. They don't see Halo as a game; they just seem to treat it like it's the latest version of crack and they have to **** with others because they don't like it. Obviously, I'm not that kind of halo player, Even if my name suggests i love halo a lot (which i still do, by the way). And i especially hate those hypocritical bastards that call everybody twelve year olds. Those ****ers, i was one of those twelve year olds. They act like they are twelve just by insulting people because they are younger, or because they suck at something. It's people like them that invented cheats like "Suiciding", "Bridging" and this weird cheat called "staircase to heaven", which, i have no ****ing clue what that's about. These people just can't play halo like a fun and competitive game online, and like an epic experience offline.

So yeah. I think Halo is the best FPS ever. But that doesn't mean i'm going to start debates like this about it. You don't like it? That's great! Then might I recommend something else, UT2004? Don't like FPS? Then how about super mario galaxy? Don't like nintendo? how about Burnout: Paradise (another great game)?

See how friendly that was? Was it so hard? That's what people should say when someone says they don't like Halo. Those Halo fanboys should grow up, grab some balls, stop *****ing, and get Halo a half-decent reputation. Because right now, the way I see it, if you don't obsess over Halo, you think it's a totally overrated piece of **** game that total twelve year olds play to get orgasms. And you know what? You'd probably be right. Most people that play Halo earn it this rep. And that's because they act the way they do, discriminating others and starting wars about "Half-Life vs. Halo 3" stuff.

To summarize, I love Halo as much as any other fanboy, but i respect other people if they don't like it. But i still think they should play it if they don't like Halo because of it's rep. If you disagree with my statements about Halo and think that everything sucks, like how the melee is crap (which i agree that it sucks that you can't melee with dual weapons), or the dynamics, or whatever. That's fine! I'm a civilized person! It's good to hear your opinion! Now, if you want to argue about it, I'm only going to do it in a calm and rational manor. If you're going to act like some twelve year old ****, then I'm going to treat you like one. And personally, I like other games as well, such as Turok, Call Of Duty 4, or Half-Life 2. All are very signature games and can be just as good and better then Halo in someone's opinion.

This is funny. Because i only turn 14 next week, and this might be the most mature statement here. I wouldn't know, because i didn't read any of this thread. But judging from the title, this might be appropriate.

Goodnight, gents.

[Mefustae]

Notice how I'm not even taking part in this thread? Funny, isn't it?

Not really. But other than that; tl, dr.

[karajorma]

@Icefire: I'm not trying to berate people for their opinions, but admitedly it's rather difficult discussing something so subjective as the quality of a game. My main argument against the game is its awkward level design, closely followed by its linearity (all regarding the physical linearity, story, and action), and finally its at most average plot. A bunch of assorted, finer points here and there complement that, but it all adds up to not a crappy game (from a gamer's standpoint, not a purely objective one), but a mediocre game. Thus, the main reason for my outrage is in fact how overrated it is.

But that is all your opinion. I've been playing FPS games almost as long as you've been alive and yet I like Halo. I'm not going to say your opinion is wrong but I can point to just as many reasons why from a gamer's standpoint it is a good game. I'm not going to cause it's idiotic to try to present a subjective opinion as if it were a fact.

That probably wasn't addressed to me, given as it's not any of my main ideas, but that is interesting point. In addition to gameplay, Freespace's plot (or general premise) wasn't even all that original. It must be noted, however, how mod-able FS is compared such games as Halo.

Since when did modability have anything to do with how good the game itself is? I suppose you could claim that you only play games that can be modded but that's a pretty desperate argument. I've played and enjoyed lots of games that weren't modable. It might affect the long term value of your purchase I suppose but beyond that I can't see why it should be a large factor in deciding whether a game is fun or not.

And that's before I point out that Halo is actually reasonably modable.

And while its story isn't the most original, it certainly is good, and yet not common enough to be overly redundant. Then there's the atmosphere inspired (especially in FS2's latter levels), the beam cannons, the bombing runs, the dogfighting...

And you think that people who like Halo didn't find that the game had atmosphere? Again you're assuming that your subjective view of the game should be held by everyone.

The problem is the fans. I mean, we - as in the gaming community as a whole - have seen the emergence of an entire subclass of n00b with the release of the Halo series. Loud and obnoxious fans are bad enough, but these people (and I hate to even use the term "people") are so loud and obnoxious that they are actually giving the entire gaming community a bad name in the eyes of the public. We all know it. Being a gamer is already something of a social stigma these days thanks to bad publicity, so the last thing we as a people need is Halo 'tards making it worse.

Yes but the Halo haters really aren't any better are they? To be honest I find them a worse problem than the halo fans. Unlike the 12 year old Halo fans these wankers are everywhere. It seems like on every board you can visit in the world someone only needs to mention Halo in passing for some idiot to pop up and explain in detail (no doubt for the umpteenth time) why they don't like Halo. In many cases they only do it cause they want to troll but others seem mentally incapable of allowing someone to have a different taste in games. The very act of mentioning Halo seems to be blasphemy to this pricks.

To be honest I suspect a lot of the Halo N00b syndrome would vanish if they didn't have to constantly defend their choice of game to the anti-halo n00b. Both sets of idiots feed off each other.

[Mefustae]

Yes but the Halo haters really aren't any better are they? To be honest I find them a worse problem than the halo fans. Unlike the 12 year old Halo fans these wankers are everywhere. It seems like on every board you can visit in the world someone only needs to mention Halo in passing for some idiot to pop up and explain in detail (no doubt for the umpteenth time) why they don't like Halo. In many cases they only do it cause they want to troll but others seem mentally incapable of allowing someone to have a different taste in games. The very act of mentioning Halo seems to be blasphemy to this pricks.

To be honest I suspect a lot of the Halo N00b syndrome would vanish if they didn't have to constantly defend their choice of game to the anti-halo n00b. Both sets of idiots feed off each other.

Wow, I never thought of it like that. You make a really good point.

You have succeeded in changing my opinion. Prepare for imminent implosion of the internets.

[Ransom]

Halo appeals to some people, and not others. Why? Because Halo focused on story. How does this affect my statement? Because there are some gamers that prefer their games to be epic and played out like a story; others just want to shoot and blow **** up. Halo appealed to so many people because it offered, in my honest opinion, a very good blend of both. And since i love both of those traits in a game a lot, that's why I think Halo is the best FPS out there, stuck closely with Half-Life 2.

This is the main sticking point for me. I don't think Halo is a bad game, and I don't have a problem with people liking the hell out of it. I will, however, contest that it had a good story. The first game in particular.

Its narrative is sparse, generic, poorly written, and the characters are utterly one-dimensional. That's the difference between Halo and FS, to me: Freespace took a clichéd concept and built something grand out of it. I don't actually quite agree with the people who say its story is particularly unoriginal, because while the foundation is no different from any other 'EVIL ALIENS OH NO' story, it takes it in a somewhat more interesting direction than most. And in the case of FS2, featured Bosch - who I think is one of the most intruiging characters in SF gaming history.

Whereas I can't see any redeeming feature to the first Halo's story. I'd understand if it was just a bunch of SF clichés done especially well, but I don't think it even did that. Again, though, I don't have an issue with whether people enjoy that or not, but the fact that many people parade it as a shining example of storytelling in a game is what drives me to argument.

[Roanoke]

I don't understand the big fuss over storylines too. I've been into games for best-part of 20yrs (8 and 16bit console eras I remember best, but also remember sinclairs, CPC464s etc). When the technology was crude the gameplay and the users imagination had to make up the difference. Nowadays we have glitzy graphics, THX and endles cutscenes, usually unskippable 'cos the devs spent 80% of their time on them and that's the game's reason de'tre (sp?), and an industry breeding apathy.

[TrashMan]

I don't think anyone is saying Halo is a bad game - quite the contrary, it's a good game..but best FPS ever? Better than sliced bread?

Half-Life 2 and Cryisis beat it any day of the weak and twice on Sundays.

[Jake2447]

A lot of Halo haters seem to forget that Halo was a 2001 game.  The graphics were pretty good back for back then.  level design was limited by the older engine and the fact that it was pretty much the first Xbox shooter.  Look how much the resources of the Xbox were exploited in later years.  Bungie had no previous Xbox work to base the game off which explains some of its simplicity.  As for including already seen features, yeah thats true, but halo was the first (or second ) to do so in an impressive way.  Only two guns had been seen before, but halo made all of its weapons fun to use, and the strategies for using each were balanced.  The story integration, while preceeded by half life was still good.  You have to look at halo as a whole and say that Bungie looked at all the features accepted by fans of FPS and tried to put them in one game.  Thats why Halo is good, because they were able to do this.

By the way, I do not own an Xbox or halo, so don't think Im a diehard fan.