[Akalabeth Angel]

I'm sure this has been brought up before . . . but . . . someone in another thread said something like "maybe bosch told the shivans about humanity and they decided not to kill them or whatnot, so they left."


Well one thing I thought of . . . Bosch went out to ally humanity with the Shivans. A lot of people think the Shivans jumped home, but whose home did they go to? Theirs or Admiral Bosch's?



This might make a good campaign . . . but hell, I'm having problems rethinking the ending for my own (since it sucked, and didnt make much sense). So I'm not about to start another.

EDIT - for spelling

[Jeff Vader]

There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.

It has all been discussed before.

[Colonol Dekker]

Bosch's home = Allied space..............unless they went back to Earth................

[RedBaron]

err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.

the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.

[Jeff Vader]

err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.

the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.

They can go somewhere since there is at least the node back to Gamma Draconis. At least. I'll check some node maps to see if there are other systems as well.

Edit: Yup, there's always the Gamma Draconis node. I don't remember anyone doing anything to it.

[Akalabeth Angel]

err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.

the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.

       Well I think it's a fairly common idea that the Shivan's jumped somewhere, but who said they're limited to the Shivan homeworld? Why could they get there easier than any place else? If they can make some magic door to Shiva Prime I'm sure that magic door can lead to Sol just as easily. Bosch's motives as far as I know were always to ally the humans with the Shivans and by doing so preserve humanity.

There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.

       How exactly would Bosch convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior with no proof and lots of evidence to the contrary? Because he speaks good shivan? The fact that they lost a Sathanas doesn't change the fact that the Shivans steamrolled the GTVA everywhere else. If the Shivans were shocked by the death of a Sathanas, and feared the Colossus, why would they sortie another one to wipe it out? You don't confront something you fear. And if they did fear the GTVA, they wouldn't have risked another juggernaut against potential "one of" the GTVA's super weapon. They weren't running away from the GTVA, they were doing their thing and the GTVA was in the way. Just like the Colossus was in the way, in the way so much, that they bothered to send a Juggernaut in to take it out.


       In other respects . . . think about FS3. If freespace 3 is the GTVA returning to Sol. What's going to happen? Civil War? Some big happy reunion? It's not freespace without the Shivans. FS1 started when the Shivans arrived, not when the Vasudans did. At the same time it would probably be a pretty boring game for the Sol system to be roaming around with 50 Juggernauts (compared to FS2 which has a lot of stuff back and forth). . . but the Shivans are going to be in the game somehow.

[ShadowGorrath]

Seeing as FreeSpace1 and FreeSpace2 had some sort of other military conflict before the Shivans come. Then they whipe us out when we're least effective... But anyway, my point is, that FreeSpace3 would have had some sort of conflict in it prior to the third return of the Shivans. There are many possible conflicts there:

1. War with Sol.
2. War with fleets and people against reunitment with Sol.
3. Some sort of NTF or HoL return.
4. Bosch and some Shivans on his side.
5. People against an alliance with the Shivans.

And so on. But there would have been some sort of conflict in FS3 before the Shivans would have come.

[Jeff Vader]

There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.

       How exactly would Bosch convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior with no proof and lots of evidence to the contrary? Because he speaks good shivan? The fact that they lost a Sathanas doesn't change the fact that the Shivans steamrolled the GTVA everywhere else. If the Shivans were shocked by the death of a Sathanas, and feared the Colossus, why would they sortie another one to wipe it out? You don't confront something you fear. And if they did fear the GTVA, they wouldn't have risked another juggernaut against potential "one of" the GTVA's super weapon.

Considering that the Lucy pwned the GTA and PVN a lot before it was suddenly destroyed by a snappy tactic, it might be difficult, but not impossible, to convince the Shivans that the GTVA has some secret weapon/plan that would be at least some kind of a menace. Then again, we're talking about Shivans so there's no telling how they might react to any threats. The Capella incident might have been a scorched earth tactic or some other deterrant. It might have been this infamous Portal to Happiness^TM, as it is stated in that one cutscene.

Also, even if the Shivans would have been somewhat intimidated by the Collie, nothing stops them from exploiting its weaknesses and making several more or less big assaults against it, until it was in such a state that a Sath could blow it up for good.

think about FS3. If freespace 3 is the GTVA returning to Sol. What's going to happen?

Something was said... not good. What was it? "Sol"? Nah, that's OK. What was it? "FS3"! He said FS3! Burn the witch!

Seriously. What would happen after the events of FS2? Play some campaigns, like Derelict or Blue Planet, and see different possible scenarios. There shalt no be an ef es three. Deal with it.

[Titan]

problem is, the campaigns are controversial, none except series take place in the same 'universe'... that would be nice though, but it's impossible...

[Jeff Vader]

Precisely. Different scenarios. Different visions. None more right than the other. We will never know what would really^TM happen, but it is always nice to see what might happen.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Considering that the Lucy pwned the GTA and PVN a lot before it was suddenly destroyed by a snappy tactic, it might be difficult, but not impossible, to convince the Shivans that the GTVA has some secret weapon/plan that would be at least some kind of a menace. Then again, we're talking about Shivans so there's no telling how they might react to any threats. The Capella incident might have been a scorched earth tactic or some other deterrant. It might have been this infamous Portal to Happiness^TM, as it is stated in that one cutscene.

Also, even if the Shivans would have been somewhat intimidated by the Collie, nothing stops them from exploiting its weaknesses and making several more or less big assaults against it, until it was in such a state that a Sath could blow it up for good.

       When you use "scorched earth" tactics, you do so in your own territory. You don't run into enemy territory, and scorch their earth. If the shivans are at all worried, scared, or intimidated by the GTVA they would not go to Capella. Ever heard the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Throwing the 80 Sathanas into Capella is doing exactly that, and in ENEMY territory no less. The Lucifer is one ship, and there's no evidence that the Lucifer fleet had any sort of contact with this larger Shivan fleet in FS2. Not that it would matter, because as I said, the Shivans wouldn't care. They clearly had an agenda that basically didn't involve wiping out the GTVA at that time. Despite fan-made campaigns to the contrary, there's no canon evidence I'm aware of that the Shivans even went any further than Capella.

Something was said... not good. What was it? "Sol"? Nah, that's OK. What was it? "FS3"! He said FS3! Burn the witch!

Seriously. What would happen after the events of FS2? Play some campaigns, like Derelict or Blue Planet, and see different possible scenarios. There shalt no be an ef es three. Deal with it.

       Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
       What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
        So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .

[Jeff Vader]

When you use "scorched earth" tactics, you do so in your own territory. You don't run into enemy territory, and scorch their earth. If the shivans are at all worried, scared, or intimidated by the GTVA they would not go to Capella. Ever heard the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Throwing the 80 Sathanas into Capella is doing exactly that, and in ENEMY territory no less. The Lucifer is one ship, and there's no evidence that the Lucifer fleet had any sort of contact with this larger Shivan fleet in FS2. Not that it would matter, because as I said, the Shivans wouldn't care. They clearly had an agenda that basically didn't involve wiping out the GTVA at that time.

And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate Pwnage^TM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.

Despite fan-made campaigns to the contrary, there's no canon evidence I'm aware of that the Shivans even went any further than Capella.

I have to check out if there were any other mentions, but at least in Apocalypse you are supposed to stop those few Shivan cruisers that are attempting to jump to Vega. There might have been others as well. Though most likely they were neutralized.

       Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
       What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
        So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .

The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.

[Mobius]

Shut up, that's not true. I wouldn't exclude the development of FS3, not in a decisive way.

[Jeff Vader]

K. If you want to go to that level... you shut up.

Now, back on topic. Given the current situation and interests of Volition, I'm sticking to the "ef es three will never happen", unless explicit evidence is presented stating, that or some other faction is indeed working on FS3. People are, of course, free to believe what they want to believe. I might remind you that, like with leadership solutions, there are no right or wrong opinions. Just good and bad ones...

[Akalabeth Angel]

And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate Pwnage^TM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.

        Oh right, the Shivans are alien, so they'll react contrary to common sense. Riiiiight.
        I don't think the Shivans were doing that the whole time either, their actions were changed by Bosch but not in the way you're thinking. Running away? Running towards the enemy you're scared of? Not likely.

I have to check out if there were any other mentions, but at least in Apocalypse you are supposed to stop those few Shivan cruisers that are attempting to jump to Vega. There might have been others as well. Though most likely they were neutralized.

      Yeah, except that the Shivans weren't attempting to jump to Vega. That was Command's concern, not the Shivan's intentions. It's pretty clear from the mission itself that they're just attacking the convoy. Probably in an effort to "kill them or hurry them out of the system because the Shivans got **** to do". For one, if they wanted to jump to Vega they'd probably actually move _towards_ the node not away from it.

The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.

     You even reading my post? I told you I'm not talking about FS3, I'm talking about FS2. I don't give a crap in FS3 is ever made, if it's never made, I don't care. I'm talking about understanding FS2 by theorizing what FS3 might've been. Which is a perfectly legitimate discussion. I don't know why everyone on this board has to act like a 4 year old whenever someone mentions "FS3". So it's somehow a banned word as taboo or whatever.

[Polpolion]

And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate Pwnage^TM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.

        Oh right, the Shivans are alien, so they'll react contrary to common sense. Riiiiight.
        I don't think the Shivans were doing that the whole time either, their actions were changed by Bosch but not in the way you're thinking. Running away? Running towards the enemy you're scared of? Not likely.

You're acting like common sense is the same thing always; never changing. All common sense is is just an instinct that people inherently know what to do in some situations. Whether the Shivans have something similar or not is completely independent from what we view as "common" sense.

----

       Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
       What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
        So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .

The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.

AFAIK it hasn't been discussed thoroughly. Every time someone legitimately comes up to discuss what could have possibly happened, someone comes around throwing their arms in the air shouting "OMG DEATH EVIL FS3 GO KILL YOURSELF NOW!!!! #(% S($T!!! ME HATES!!".

Akalabeth Angel wasn't talking about FS3 as a game as you say, he was talking about what could have possibly in that time period.



...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3. But not quite as annoying as the people who get pissed off at the people who get pissed off at the people who mention FS3, I guess.

[Snail]

...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3.

Would have to agree unless the person mentioning FS3 decides to post 3+ threads and keep persisting until someone squeals at him.

[Mobius]

K. If you want to go to that level... you shut up.

Now, back on topic. Given the current situation and interests of Volition, I'm sticking to the "ef es three will never happen", unless explicit evidence is presented stating, that or some other faction is indeed working on FS3. People are, of course, free to believe what they want to believe. I might remind you that, like with leadership solutions, there are no right or wrong opinions. Just good and bad ones...

Only because no one is working on FS3 right now you can't claim that it will never be developed.

How did the community react when Derek Smart did what-we-all-know? What should we do/think now that Interplay seems back in business and FreeSpace is becoming famous?

...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3.

Would have to agree unless the person mentioning FS3 decides to post 3+ threads and keep persisting until someone squeals at him.

That happens because there are no "I'm new, what do I need to know about FreeSpace and HLP?" sections. They would greatly help people who have trouble installing FSO and prevent the creation of the.

I read about The FS3 Matter^TM on The FAQ^TM(the one that brought me here) without creating the nth thread about the subject.

[Jeff Vader]

Only because no one is working on FS3 right now you can't claim that it will never be developed.

I can. And I will. That's my opinion and I have a right to have it. Knock yourself out and have one of your own. You can't say I'm wrong because you think in a different way and vice versa. You wanna believe FS3 hits the store shelves any time soon? Please do. I'm not stopping you.

How did the community react when Derek Smart did what-we-all-know? What should we do/think now that Interplay seems back in business and FreeSpace is becoming famous?[/color][/i]

Most of the community didn't want an FS3, when it seemed that a DS was going to develop it. And now? I'm just concerned that FreeSpace becomes so popular that Interplay notices the HLP and thinks "Hey, they can't distribute FS2 freely!" and throw lawsuits at the community, effectively making FS2 a rare item among players. And even if Interplay is back in business, there is currently no proof that they're actually even remotely interested in continuing the space sim genre, not to mention by having someone make a sequel to a series that (sadly) was a flop.

[Mobius]

The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.

That looks like a fact, something that is no longer open to discussions. That post was filled with arrogance: I wouldn't call it an "opinion" because you made it look like the vision of the entire community while, as you said, it isn't.

As for the second part, I keep saying that you can't exclude a possible release of FS3. We CAN exclude it for the immediate future, however.

Many series kept going without their original programmers with various degrees of success(ex. Crash Bandicoot). We would all like a FS3 Made In , that would be the true sequel, but we're generalizing here. Though a FS3 made by doesn't seem possible, a FS3 made by <insert name> is.