Author Topic: Multi Player scoring system features & fixes  (Read 1934 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

  • Self-Propelled Trouble Magnet
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Master Drunk
    • 165th Beer Drinking Hell Raisers
Multi Player scoring system features & fixes
Starting this thread to discuss fixes and feature ideas for multi player scoring.  Starting with the TvT scoring:  Mantis 1641  Also referencing my year old attempt to figure out how all the scoring in multi worked:  http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45066.0.html

First I think any changes should be optional to still allow retail scoring to be used for all existing missions and any future missions that might want it.  That said off to the ideas.

-I do like the idea of splitting the event score up between the team. 
-Right now all TvT scoring is done at medium difficulty.  Is there any way to change this so that it defaults to 100%?  Pretty sure setting the difficulty in the host screen does nothing for TvT.  Believe this was squadwar related and no matter what you set it changes it to medium.  Maybe only set the difficulty to medium if squadwar is enabled.  This would allow for some of the newer missions like my TvT gauntlet to be played on hard or insane. 
-Option to allow AI kills to count toward team score.  Useful for AI bomber wings.  Also useful for carryover damage option below.

All types of multi missions:
-Event scoring enabled
-Goal scoring enabled
-I've seen the request for a carryover damage option between respawns.  I'm not a big fan of this one but can see where it would have it's uses. 
-Subtraction from scoring.  Basically a way to penalty for doing something wrong.  Event scoring would be a nice place for this.  Should never make the total mission score for player/team go below 0. 
-A score cap to allow more possibilities to get score without making a RI out of it.  This one wouldn't be necessary with the ability to award negative score since you could limit it by using events. 
-Beam damage.  This one opens up a whole can of worms especially when dealing with player beam weapons.  Kara will remember the Drakh Raider problem from TBP.  Right now in multi cap beams don't count as hull damage for scoring purposes .  Basically if a ship has 4010 hull and it gets blasted for 4000 damage by a beam from a cap you only need to do 5 damage to it to get the kill (50% of the remaining 10 damage).  A lot of you probably have received the Ravana kill for taking out the beams with a couple of Trebs in Forward Edge. 

These are probably a lot more involved:
-Assist scoring
-Bomb intercept scoring and stat tracking.
-Subsystem & turret scoring and stat tracking. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Multi Player scoring system features & fixes
-I do like the idea of splitting the event score up between the team. 


Yep. The only question is what number to divide by? The number of players at the start, the number at the end, the largest number of players at any point? One possibility is to have the current Score value be the one that the team gets and a separate individual score field control how many points the players themselves get.

Quote
-Right now all TvT scoring is done at medium difficulty.  Is there any way to change this so that it defaults to 100%?  Pretty sure setting the difficulty in the host screen does nothing for TvT.  Believe this was squadwar related and no matter what you set it changes it to medium.  Maybe only set the difficulty to medium if squadwar is enabled.  This would allow for some of the newer missions like my TvT gauntlet to be played on hard or insane.

Yep, I noticed that a while back and did wonder why it was that way. I'm still trying to figure out why too. I thought at first it was to avoid any bugs with balancing the hostile and friendly teams but logically that would mean balancing at insane where the two sides have parity not at medium.

 
Quote
-Option to allow AI kills to count toward team score.  Useful for AI bomber wings.  Also useful for carryover damage option below.

It would be nice but the problem there is that AI ships don't keep score. It might be possible to add in a scoring option when they actually make a kill though.

Quote
-I've seen the request for a carryover damage option between respawns.  I'm not a big fan of this one but can see where it would have it's uses. 

huh?

Quote
-Subtraction from scoring.  Basically a way to penalty for doing something wrong.  Event scoring would be a nice place for this.  Should never make the total mission score for player/team go below 0. 

Probably wouldn't be that hard to do. Assuming the game doesn't do it already. The only problem would be if the game uses unsigned ints or shorts to pass the score.

Quote
-Beam damage.  This one opens up a whole can of worms especially when dealing with player beam weapons.  Kara will remember the Drakh Raider problem from TBP.  Right now in multi cap beams don't count as hull damage for scoring purposes .  Basically if a ship has 4010 hull and it gets blasted for 4000 damage by a beam from a cap you only need to do 5 damage to it to get the kill (50% of the remaining 10 damage).  A lot of you probably have received the Ravana kill for taking out the beams with a couple of Trebs in Forward Edge.

Yeah, it's always been that way in both SP and MP. I'd like to make it optional though.

Quote
These are probably a lot more involved:
-Assist scoring


Actually I suspect that one would be easy. I'd simply need to copy whatever is done in the evaluate kill function into the evaluate assists function.


Quote
-Bomb intercept scoring and stat tracking.
-Subsystem & turret scoring and stat tracking. 

Well you'd need some way of defining what the score was for these for a start since they don't have one (although for subsystems you could just use their percentage of hull but that would allow you to make 2x points from most ships by denuding them of turrets and then killing the ship. But yeah I can see the point of having scoring for them.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

  • Self-Propelled Trouble Magnet
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Master Drunk
    • 165th Beer Drinking Hell Raisers
Re: Multi Player scoring system features & fixes
Carryover scoring is where you keep the percentage damage you have done to the enemy vessel between spawns so that it you do say 40% on one spawn and 15% on the next spawn and then the ship is destroyed you get the kill.  Carries over the values from spawn to spawn instead of reseting them. 

TvT missions being medium difficulty was a hard coded squadwar thing.  The rules were all missions were to be played on medium so V hard coded it that way.  Really they should have hard coded it only for when the squadwar option was selected. 

You would need either a default percentage score for an assist or a way of setting that too. 

Never thought about the effect ingame joining would have on any of these.  Awarding points/number of player ships to each player when the event fires would probably be the easiest.  So basically if it's a 10 player mission and there are say 6 players playing and the event score was 100 each person would get 10.  Another solution might be to add a couple more options to the team box for team only, team and players, or team / players. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 03:36:06 am by FUBAR-BDHR »
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Multi Player scoring system features & fixes
Carryover scoring is where you keep the percentage damage you have done to the enemy vessel between spawns so that it you do say 40% on one spawn and 15% on the next spawn and then the ship is destroyed you get the kill.  Carries over the values from spawn to spawn instead of reseting them.

Yeah I seem to remember seeing the cause of that when I was doing something for the score/respawns/ship-deaths SEXPs. It would definitely be nice to have as an option so that you could set it for big ships.

Quote
TvT missions being medium difficulty was a hard coded squadwar thing.  The rules were all missions were to be played on medium so V hard coded it that way.  Really they should have hard coded it only for when the squadwar option was selected.


Well that's just silly. And should be pretty easy to fix.

Quote
You would need either a default percentage score for an assist or a way of setting that too.


You get an assist for 15% of the damage so 15% of the score seems pretty fair to me. Although making a way to set it would be good too.

Quote
Never thought about the effect ingame joining would have on any of these.  Awarding points/number of player ships to each player when the event fires would probably be the easiest.  So basically if it's a 10 player mission and there are say 6 players playing and the event score was 100 each person would get 10.  Another solution might be to add a couple more options to the team box for team only, team and players, or team / players. 

Having a new value is actually the easiest method. You'd simply say that when event A triggers the team get 1000 points and each individual player gets 100 regardless of how many there were on the team. That doesn't have the effect of balancing up uneven teams but it does counter the effect of having someone kick all 11 other players before scoring the big kill on a coop mission just to keep the points to himself.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

  • Self-Propelled Trouble Magnet
  • Moderator
  • 212
  • Master Drunk
    • 165th Beer Drinking Hell Raisers
Re: Multi Player scoring system features & fixes
Just thought of this.  We need to think about which of these would effect team score and which ones wouldn't.  For example the assist score.  If you award it to both the player and the team then the team is getting awarded for the kill and the assist.  Bomb and subsystem points could swing either way For example if it's a defense mission with hundreds of incoming bombs that your primary goal is to defend against then you may want to allow the scoring for the team.  Only a couple of dozen that really don't effect the outcome for the team as a whole then maybe not.  Subsystems that you want the team to get score for can always be handled with event scoring.

No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras