Author Topic: Bad Physics  (Read 3830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
  • 29
Am I wrong? Cuz in space the more you leave your thruster on the faster you accelerate...which means if a Perseus leaves its thrusters on then it will not maintain its speed of 80 m/s but it will keep getting faster. Right?
Is this just the kind of thing that because its a videogame its like that? Like SW where they leave the engines on and keep the same speed?
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Alikchi

  • Neo-Terran
  • 210
  • Spooky ghost (RIP)
You're thinking Newtonian physics, like in Independence War 1/2
"Going too far and caring too much about a subject is the best way to make friends that I know."
- Sarah Vowell

 

Offline Thorn

  • Drunk on the east coast.
  • 210
  • What is this? I don't even...
Yeah, after playing FS for a while, Iwar gets annoying to play...

 

Offline Grey Wolf

In Newtonian physics decel should take longer than acel. That's why all my ships are really bad at stopping.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline vadar_1

  • Mr. Crispy
  • 29
  • .
    • http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hosted/fullcircle/
the engine system is all wrong, but its more fun. Real space physics would make you want to scream.
"Shockingly, checking Draw Lines Between Marked Icons draws lines between the marked icons. " -Volition quality help files

Projects;
The Full Circle Project (site down - server side problem)
Paradox (site down - server side problem)

 

Offline Vertigo1

  • 'Scaper
  • 28
They probably left that out to keep people from doing rediculous speeds that would affect game balance.
Gargoyles, Season 1.  Buy it, or DIE! :)

"Professor! This ship is capable of traveling 90 percent the speed of light! Why are we only doing 35 miles an hour!" - Leela
"Because we're in a hurry!" - Professor

"from a purely stastical standpoint japanese men DO have smaller penii on average" - Kazan

 
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
In Newtonian physics decel should take longer than acel. That's why all my ships are really bad at stopping.


not true, it just takes more fuel to decellerate at the same rate.

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Uh, no. The energy required to get to a speed is the exact same energy as it would take to stop from that speed. It's the whole F=MA thingy. The same force is required to stop you as it was to start you.

I like Tachyons controls where you can use the glide button to kick in some Newtonian physics for a bit.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline CP5670

  • Dr. Evil
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
yeah, I think an0n is right about that. Deceleration is just a negative acceleration, so if you do the math, the absolute value of the force should come out as the same.;)

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Where's Mik when you need him?
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 
I like the FS physics! :mad2:

 

Offline Styxx

  • 211
    • Hard Light Productions
Well, FS physics are a LOT more fun than I-War physics. Come on, admit that the pseudo-newtoninan stuff from I-War can get annoying at times, even though the game is fun.
Probably away. Contact through email.

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
I can't stand Newtonian games. I even shy away from regular flight sims cozza the gravity. I hope Earth And Beyond doesn't have crappy physics.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
Sorry to be late, an0n.

It takes more fuel to decellerate than accellerate? What?!

The Newtonian physics model is really really simple. You only use fuel to change speed or direction. If you're moving 80m/s, you'll keep moving at that speed if you cut the engines. The only way you'll stop is by firing the engines on the exact opposite course for the exact same amount of time as it took to get up to speed.

Freespace, as you'll notice, doesn't do this. It has an inertial drop off (you coast to a stop when you cut engines) and no instant inertial damping (changine directions is instantaneous). Call it 'arcade physics'.

I prefer Independence War's psuedo newtonian model because it makes the game less twitch oriented and it allows you to pull off some really nifty stunts. On the other hand, it doesn't let you pull off a Return of the Jedi Death Star Mk2 reactor run quite as easily (You're likely to carom off the walls). Mostly, however, I like the IW model because you can turn it on or off at will.
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
I don't remember for sure, but Darklight Conflict was halfway between FS2 and Iwar2, and I remember  think it was cool :)
You could make U-turns and stuff like taht w/o any pb, and yet you could also make crazy sliding moves to avoid missiles and tsuff liek that. The game wasn't great I suppose, but the handdling was really fun ( from what I can remember, I have to repeat)
SCREW CANON!

 
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Sorry to be late, an0n.

It takes more fuel to decellerate than accellerate? What?!

 


i wasn't clear.  if you want to accelerate to a certain amount of speed, say 30 m/s, in a certain time, say 30 seconds, it will take a certain amount of fuel (arbitrary) 30 kg.  Now if you want to accelerate to 30 m/s in 30 seconds and then turn around and deccelerate from 30 m/s to 0 in another 30 seconds, it will take 30 times 30 kg of fuel or 900 kg instead of the intuitive 60 kg.

this is because in the first case all youre accelerating is the ship and fuel for the one way trip.  for a round trip, you have to accelerate the ship, its fuel for the one way trip, and the fuel needed to deccelerate at the end of the trip.  Its the weight of the extra fuel that makes you have to bring along more fuel.

hope that clears it up

 

Offline CP5670

  • Dr. Evil
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
FS ships run on some sort of deuterium-based nuclear fusion reactors though, so the difference in mass would be neglegible.;)

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
In Newtonian physics decel should take longer than acel. That's why all my ships are really bad at stopping.


If you're facing forward and using some type of reverse/vectored thruster to help you slow down, that would explain the different speed, since braking engines would be smaller; but otherwise, Newtonian physics has a completely symmetric system. :)
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline YodaSean

  • 27
  • i am so special
    • http://www.geocities.com/radioactiveyeti
Quote
Originally posted by NegspectahDek


i wasn't clear.  if you want to accelerate to a certain amount of speed, say 30 m/s, in a certain time, say 30 seconds, it will take a certain amount of fuel (arbitrary) 30 kg.  Now if you want to accelerate to 30 m/s in 30 seconds and then turn around and deccelerate from 30 m/s to 0 in another 30 seconds, it will take 30 times 30 kg of fuel or 900 kg instead of the intuitive 60 kg.

this is because in the first case all youre accelerating is the ship and fuel for the one way trip.  for a round trip, you have to accelerate the ship, its fuel for the one way trip, and the fuel needed to deccelerate at the end of the trip.  Its the weight of the extra fuel that makes you have to bring along more fuel.

hope that clears it up


What????  This is all too confusing to me.  I'm just sticking to my old theory where invisible little men floating around in space push your ship around. :)

 

Offline Mad Bomber

  • Booooom
  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506
I don't remember for sure, but Darklight Conflict was halfway between FS2 and Iwar2, and I remember  think it was cool :)
You could make U-turns and stuff like taht w/o any pb, and yet you could also make crazy sliding moves to avoid missiles and tsuff liek that. The game wasn't great I suppose, but the handdling was really fun ( from what I can remember, I have to repeat)


I have that game. Fun but much, much harder to survive. Crappy plot tho.
"What the hell!? I've got a Snuffleupagus on my scanners! The Snuffleupagus is active!"