Author Topic: FreeSpace vs Real Life  (Read 16300 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
The problem with the speed system is that even if you are measuring speed relative to an inertial reference frame, you should be able to accelerate infinitely relative to that frame - there is no speed cap (until you run out of fuel ;)).  But FS's physics are not intended to simulate real physics (AKA Newtonian Physics).

Yes.

 

Offline MT

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
The problem with the speed system is that even if you are measuring speed relative to an inertial reference frame, you should be able to accelerate infinitely relative to that frame - there is no speed cap (until you run out of fuel ;)).  But FS's physics are not intended to simulate real physics (AKA Newtonian Physics).

IIRC, there is something called Relativity and it hasn't been disproven yet.

 
Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Well for one thing there wouldn't be aliens (Vasudans) that look so close to humans
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
They developed in similar conditions to our. Except for the harsh planet, that's why they're physicaly stronger than us.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Engine speed?  The subspace drive has the unfortunate side-effect of always being partially 'online', and creates drag through the grip it maintains in subspace.  *shrugs*  Works, right?  xD  But that wouldn't explain why you couldn't go super-fast if your subspace drive got damaged.

Way to go! :p
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
The problem with the speed system is that even if you are measuring speed relative to an inertial reference frame, you should be able to accelerate infinitely relative to that frame - there is no speed cap (until you run out of fuel ;)).  But FS's physics are not intended to simulate real physics (AKA Newtonian Physics).

IIRC, there is something called Relativity and it hasn't been disproven yet.


Right, so there should be an overall speed cap -- you'll never move faster than C.

But Freespace ships don't get close.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
AI can be reprogrammed and turned against very easily. Even worse if you take over what controls it, then your whole force would turn against you.

Yes, it's definitly very easy to reprogram a machine flying at several hundred kph in outerspace while firing at you and protected by layers of armour that .50 cal rounds would have trouble penetrating. Yep. Very easy.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
AI can be reprogrammed and turned against very easily. Even worse if you take over what controls it, then your whole force would turn against you.

Yes, it's definitly very easy to reprogram a machine flying at several hundred kph in outerspace while firing at you and protected by layers of armour that .50 cal rounds would have trouble penetrating. Yep. Very easy.

Agreed. Sorry, shadowgorrath, but I think you're not quite understanding the actual functioning of AI.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Yes, it's definitly very easy to reprogram a machine flying at several hundred kph in outerspace while firing at you and protected by layers of armour that .50 cal rounds would have trouble penetrating. Yep. Very easy.

Battlestar Galactica called. Said something about you being wrong. :p

You really shouldn't assume that reprogramming has to take place during the battle. As BSG pointed out it would be a complete disaster if the enemy/terrorists/GTI rebellion got inside the AI routines during peace time and took them over. Even putting in an obscure but crippling crash would be enough to severely damage the enemy if you knew how to trigger it.

During war there are any number of chances of destroying the entire enemy force with a single covert op against the base that runs them all.
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Offline Snail

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Well for one thing there wouldn't be aliens (Vasudans) that look so close to humans
It could be possible that there was a very, very old race that planted the Vasudans, humans and maybe Ancients as seeds on lots of planets as an experiment. I guess that the Brahmans that Darius mentioned in BP would be this concept.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Yes, it's definitly very easy to reprogram a machine flying at several hundred kph in outerspace while firing at you and protected by layers of armour that .50 cal rounds would have trouble penetrating. Yep. Very easy.

Battlestar Galactica called. Said something about you being wrong. :p

You really shouldn't assume that reprogramming has to take place during the battle. As BSG pointed out it would be a complete disaster if the enemy/terrorists/GTI rebellion got inside the AI routines during peace time and took them over. Even putting in an obscure but crippling crash would be enough to severely damage the enemy if you knew how to trigger it.

During war there are any number of chances of destroying the entire enemy force with a single covert op against the base that runs them all.

Well, er, if there's a base that 'runs' all the AIs, isn't that rather silly? Modern drone control seems to suggest they'd be handled by a bunch of guys in trailers...probably parked on the hangar decks of a number of different destroyers.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Yes, it's definitly very easy to reprogram a machine flying at several hundred kph in outerspace while firing at you and protected by layers of armour that .50 cal rounds would have trouble penetrating. Yep. Very easy.

Battlestar Galactica called. Said something about you being wrong. :p

You really shouldn't assume that reprogramming has to take place during the battle. As BSG pointed out it would be a complete disaster if the enemy/terrorists/GTI rebellion got inside the AI routines during peace time and took them over. Even putting in an obscure but crippling crash would be enough to severely damage the enemy if you knew how to trigger it.

During war there are any number of chances of destroying the entire enemy force with a single covert op against the base that runs them all.

It would be a disaster; you're correct. But BSG is a TV show, not real life. As awesome BSG is, we're comparing FS to real life, not FS to BSG. AFAIK, the systems in BSG were infiltrated solely by Six because Baltar let her in. Any decent security system in this situation IRL would require a multi-person only access, they'd have a secured workplace, most likely a secure living place as well, along with myriad other precautions.

Also, I'm assuming were talking about genuine AI, not just remotely controlled stuff, right? AFAIK in modern times the MQ-1 Predator is remotely controlled, but the MQ-R8 Fire Scout has actual AI like that.

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Still, it is a weakspot. Plus, the AI ships need to be linked to somewhere at least to be fully efficient. And all you need is to hack it.

Also, we know about space tech and the future as much as a blind man can see something. For all we know, there can be some other reasons for ships in FS not being like they are now ( except probably faster than they are ingame ). I mean- not being able to fly so fast, fighters faster than capital ships, being able to normally stop in space, etc.

Though it seems that ships are considered quite fast in-game. In the first mission for example, the Vasudan transports have no subspace drives, but they fly off the big planet quite far away.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
People like to say aliens wouldn't look like us, and that makes some sense intially, because human form isn't really too efficent. But we evolved this way for a reason, and in the absence of comparison, there's really no reason not to assume aliens would look like us either.

Yes, human form is vunerable and inefficent. But what you must understand is that we have come as far as we have because we are not very well adapted physically to our environment. We had to manufacture the adaptions, we had to be smart to do that. If you don't believe me, look at the dolphins. They may very well be just as smart as we are, but they are so well-adapted to their environment they didn't to make tools and build buildings or anything else.

So I would expect an alien race to be rather like us. They're not really well-adapted to their home environment, but they do have the means to manipulate it (hands or something like them).


Regarding speed: considering the number of times you see planetary bodies about and they're not moving away from you at tremendous velocities, speed is almost certainly relative. to the largest object nearby in an interplanetary sense.

Regarding AIs: The real problem with such a system would be in the IFF. AIs don't do nonlinear thinking nearly as well as people, so they can be much more easily tricked or trapped. You don't even have to hack the AIs, just present them with IFF coding that says you're friendly and perhaps a visual mod mockup to make it look so too. They'll probably be programmed to return fire if fired upon, but even so, you'll do a lot of damage before they get the chance to do some back.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 01:55:32 am by ngtm1r »
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
We are far away from the planets and other celestial objects anyway. Besides, the game engine doesn't really allow realistic planets, so who's to say that we couldn't see it moving in real ?

 

Offline S-99

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
FTL travel: there is this thing called wormholes here, being researched. But who's to say that something like subspace can't exist ?

In fs intersystem and intrasystem subspace usage is very much like wormholes anyway. The other thing is i don't see why there can't be wormholes and subspace at the same time? Star trek has wormholes and subspace.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Heh!

That reasoning is great! I wish it was applied more often.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
We are far away from the planets and other celestial objects anyway. Besides, the game engine doesn't really allow realistic planets, so who's to say that we couldn't see it moving in real ?

Good Luck called. It wants you to note that Lucifer was not at all in motion during the mission, which makes no sense really. Everything else in the mission certainly can move around. Except your nav has decided since it's the largest object in the area, it's the thing you need to be "at rest" to compared to everything else.

But more to the point, arguing limitations of the game engine to explain this sort of thing doesn't cut it. We are presented with a self-contained reality in the game and this is the reality we must deal with while explaining things. If engine limitations force something then you must explain it within the reality, not just go "well it was the game engine" because that's not a part of the reality you're trying to explain.
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Heh, you're probably right. Forgot about the Lucifer.

 
Re: FreeSpace vs Real Life
Most scientists who theorize on the issue believe that alien life wouldn't look like anything on earth.

How much of a coincidence is it that Vasudans have 2 arms, 2 legs (that are all oriented with the same kind of movement), the same basic body shape, 2 eyes, 1 nose, and one mouth in the exact same pattern, fingers, etc. ?

In fact the whole idea that aliens look like huge weird versions of creatures on earth (insects, fish, lizards, mammals, etc.) is probably completely wrong.
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