[phreak]

f-16 block 60.  Same airframe with all new avionics.

[Thor]

Anyone want to buy some F/A 18s from Canada so we can get some new hotness in here?

[AlphaOne]

No i do not play any part in this purchase. However the statement is public notice that we asked for Multi-Role aircrafts that can witstand harsh conditions and take a lot of abuse.

The thing is While the F-16 may be around for 5-10 more years the Grippen will be around for 20 or 30 .

The same for the Typhoon. Both planes were developed to be in service for a few decades given they recieve updates in avionics etc.


I will attempt to get some cost figures here later today. For now im way too busy to be able to do anithing about it.

[Al Tarket]

to operate in such bad conditions, the Romanians would need to improve their hangers to withstand the temperatures, because i do not think any protection like a plastic sheet will keep the fighters out of the bitter cold .

[colecampbell666]

Anyone want to buy some F/A 18s from Canada so we can get some new hotness in here?

QFT. But isn't the 18 air superiority, and not multi-role?

[Mars]

The F/A-18 is multirole, but it's typically carrier based.

[colecampbell666]

Not in Canada, I believe most of them are based in Alberta/Quebec, being the land-based "L" variant. And there are only 80 left with modern tech.

[Mars]

We (the US) ditched ours for the Superhornet, but it's certainly not a budget plane

[AlphaOne]

Well the Mig's we have now seem to withstand the harsh conditions here.

It's a damn shame they did not went along with the Sniper project they had for the Mig 29's !

The Snip[er project was basicly improved engines avionics weapons radar comunications you name it. And they were damn good.


The Mig 29 even today is a very formidable aircraft if you have the proper avionics on it.

Twin engined faster then the F-16 and just as manouverable in a dogfight if not more.

There as this statement regarding maintenance for the f-16 as about 10 hours minimum for every hour in the air. And that is a lot of maintenance.

Also the offset program is not as favorable as the one proposed by Saab and the Eurofighter wich is close to 100 % for the Eurofighter and 100% for the Grippen .

As i stated above the Eurofighter is the only 5'th generation fighter that has entered competition so that is a big + for it. However because it costs some 60 to 70 million euros fully stocked and loaded its a lot more expensive the the Grippen and the F-16 even wich is about 40 or so.

[Thor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CF-18_Hornet

there's some good old wiki knowledge.

I'd love to see some nice shiny F-35 JSF planes for the great white north...but that'll happen sometime after they're irrelevent. 

[Davros]

where are people getting this "eurofighter is not a better dogfighter than the f-16"
the eurofighter was designed to beat the flanker

[Al Tarket]

the f-16 can still beat even the best of them today. to me the typoons main wings seem a bit too big for real dogfighting more like a smaller bombing role.

[Herra Tohtori]

the f-16 can still beat even the best of them today. to me the typoons main wings seem a bit too big for real dogfighting more like a smaller bombing role.

So it's the visual appearance now that defines the abilities of an airplane...?

(Hint: It doesn't. )

[Al Tarket]

oh really? well ok, dont come telling me one day they create an ugly plane with wings bigger then the eurofighter and find out its a real ***** to fly.

in a steaight line the euro fighter can do best because the wings give stability when in the sky. but when the air hits the biggest part of the wing above or below, it dont go over or around, insteead it hits the wing and the stability is lost overall. im not a navy air specialist but i am pretty sure that the way its build means its also got something to do with visual appearance.

[Mars]

Larger wing area typically means more lift, and in some cases, better maneuverability.

The Eurofighter is better than the F-16... it just is; they're not even in the same generation, and the F-16 was designed to be cheap. Now if you want to compare F-4s to MIG-21s or F-22s to Eurofighters, go right ahead, but don't compare different generations.

[Mika]

Then it pretty much sounds like Gripen would be the best, for me at least.

Lift is produced also by the fuselage in modern aircrafts, not only by wings. This itself is a factor why F-16 is so agile. I'm quite sure that the aircraft design methods since the F-16 have improved, leading to more agile fighters. Don't get me wrong, F-16 is agile, but it might not be the agilest one nowadays.

It is interesting to see if US goes with instaneous turn rate or sustained turn rate, F-22 looks, and I emphasize looks, it would sport good instaneous turn rate by air show demos, sustained turn rate parameter not being shown on those demos. This is important as turn rate is the capability of pointing the nose of the aircraft towards enemy so that weapons can be employed. F-16's problem is that it doesn't have high instaneous rate (to preserve good sustained turn rate), so it cannot point nose towards enemy to launch short range missiles as quickly as the opposing fighters that might trade speed for nose position.

Here, also a clarification of what is meant by dogfight would be in order. Dogfight for me at least is engagement within visual range. Beyond visual range fights are most dominant nowadays, so the radar, avionics, and missiles of the aircraft are of utmost importance, depending of the strategy of the country. For Romania, with a limited number of fighters, staying out of the dogfights might be a good strategy.

Mika

[AlphaOne]

Its semi-official. I just read the news here.

We are freaking retards or at least our corupt politicians are. Someone nuke the freak out of us an put all of us out of our missery.

Theyre gooing to buy 24 yeah you heard me 24 freaking piece of junk F-16 SH . Then they will refurbish them =))

Oh man someone please put an end to all of this. Not only do they buy 70's tech but they are not even the new variant =)))

This has got to be the mother of all screwups.

The grippen was not good even if it does cost bradn new he same as the piece of **** F-16 A/B .

The F-16 has an average cost of about 20k dolars per hour of flight compared to the 4k needed for the Grippen.

Can anyone say big fat juicy bonuses from Loched to the cruked romanian politicians??

I can. Not that i can blame them they are just dooing business.

So please some pleaseeeeee nuke the f**k out of this piece of **** lame excuse of a country. At this rate our armed force will have dated equipment in less then 5 years time. All equipment bough at the price of brand new equipment even though its SH.

They are actualy buyng the SH versions for 50 milion dolars =)))))))) OMG this has got to be hilarious.

Anyone know any friendly suicide bommbers il give them my paycheck for 1 year if they agree to detonate inside the gouse of parliament or any political building as long as they take the politicians with him.

[neo_hermes]

...

[AlphaOne]

So youre not up to date. Well for about 2 years or so the RO Air force neded to replace its aging Mig's.

So the politicians decided it as time to buy NEW ones.

Now not only do they not buy new ones but they are gooing to pay about 2 billion dollars give or take a few hundred milions (who cares anyway) to buy second hand planes 24 in total for the price of a brand new airplane.

That is of course wih a total ignorance to what military officials and the pilots mainly in regards to the purchasing.

They did not want the F-16 since they considered the Grippen to be a far more better choice for us.


Now i wont be taken back even by the fact that they buy SH planes but for the total price of new ones??

that is ridiculous.

At this rate they are better off with the Mig's since in they current state compared to the ones they are gooing to buy they are more advance avionics wise. And we already have them.

Oh yeah and who the hell retires 18 mid life airplanes out of a sudden?

they retired 18 Mig 29 mid life cuz they were too old. Even though they were 80' tech. and with the improvement they originaly had in plan they could of been far better they what we want to buy.

Oh boy this is the friggate case for the navy all over again only this time were talking bilions not milions.

[neo_hermes]

why don't you send a letter of disappointment to your government.