Author Topic: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.  (Read 8173 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
When shooting down bombs AI should prefer fast-fire weapons and non-linked banks.

It should always check if the weapons is intended or good at the job.
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Offline Mobius

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
On FS1 you can play on Insane with the easy/moderate missions. In FS2, anything with beams is instant death on Insane.

IMO you don't need to play FS on Insane to comment the behavior of friendly spacecraft and warships. The AI should come out with better meneuvers and game tactics to turn every dogfight into a challenge/fun experience without forcing the player to switch to Insane.

I'd like more meneuvers used against me rather than deadlier weapons.

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Quote
AI that uses Trebuchets, Stilletos properly, esp if they're attacking a ship that has one or two cannons on a side that are doing the most damage. As well as directing fire towards targets of opportunity on the hull when attacking (eg turrets or subsystems).

As I recall earlier versions of the FS Port actually did something like this with Pheonix 5's, the problem was this made certain missions (protecting the Beta Aquilae communications terminal comes to mind) impossible because they would smash the lightly armored ship you're supposed to protect before you even had a chance to intercept.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
I don't even know how to use the Phoenix V... :nervous:
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Offline Snail

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
I don't even know how to use the Phoenix V... :nervous:
It's good against freighters and slow moving bombers. Can also act like a poor-man's bomb against Fenris or Aten cruisers.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Its pretty much a trebuchet with a shorter range. I think its slightly more maneuverable too.
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Offline eliex

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Its pretty much a trebuchet with a shorter range. I think its slightly more maneuverable too.

The trebuchet hits more often though. It homes for the front of the target, not the tail, like the hornet.

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Its pretty much a trebuchet with a shorter range. I think its slightly more maneuverable too.

The trebuchet was manueverable enough to shoot down fighters, the Pheonix V had problems hitting Nephilims.

That reminds me, something else I noticed a while back:

Bomber X and bomber Y are in close formation, with bomber X behind (and kind of offset) bomber y. They both release their bombers, but because they are too close bomber y gets hit in the ass with bomber x's bombs. I recall seeing this a few times in Clash of the Titans 2, but that was a while ago.
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline eliex

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
If bombers have afterburners then they should actually use them.

*Pointing at the GTB Zeus

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
The Zeus pilots do use their afterburners.
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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
I didn't read most of this thread, so my ideas were probably already discussed but:

1. Speed is life. The AI doesn't seem to use burners when it's being hit in it's shields or when it's chased by missiles. That has to leave if we want better AI.

2. Speed is life. The AI uses Aburners in short bursts when it's hit in the hull, it should use at least 1/4-1/3 of it's Aburn fuel changing direction randomly (but keeping a general course to move away from it's attacker in the process, rather than orbiting him).

3. A script checking what type of damage a weapon does best (shields, hull, subsys) would really help the AI out if it has multiple weapons, and uses a Maxim against shields or a Helios against subsystems if it has a Circe and Trebs or Stilletos in it's other banks.

4. Again, speed is life. I can't count the times I was in a slow turn fight ended by a charging wingman, or ending one myself in a quick charge on an enemy that doesn't have the speed to move out of the way of my cannonade.

5. Does AI issue wingman orders to each other? The enemy ships seem to attack random targets as soon as the formation breaks, and when I call everyone to form on my wing between waves of enemies, my wingmen both get more hits and get hit less thanks to a concentrated stream of 'lasers' and missiles hitting the whole enemy formation.

An automatic script where AI ships hit full throttle without burners and head towards the wingleader (C-3-7) between dogfights would solve the problem of friendly or enemy ships left without cover when the next wave arrives.

Another script where AI controlled wings try to attack a single target before getting in a turning fight with everyone (C-3-1) would generate kills. Once the formation reaches what's left of the enemy (let's say 500 meters), the AI ships randomly choose a target (C-3-9) to keep most enemies busy.
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Offline chief1983

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
You sound like an XvT veteran, the improvements you describe sound more like the way the veterans played on the Zone back in the day.
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Offline eliex

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
The Zeus pilots do use their afterburners.

Only when they have completed their bombing run on the target and trying to escape interceptors bearing down on it. The Zeus bombers should max all energy to their engines and afterburn them until they are 700m from the target then release them. Also, if the bombers release the bombs on afterburner, the bomb will have a momentary speed bonus.

 
Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
You sound like an XvT veteran, the improvements you describe sound more like the way the veterans played on the Zone back in the day.

X-Wing vs TIE Fighter? I didn't play that game too much, Fighters Anthology had a really developed combat simulation system. And a few hundred page book about flight, airplanes, weapons and combat to go with it.

And I guess that my ideas work if veterans use them... :p
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Offline chief1983

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Yeah, number 4 definitely stood out, reminds me of all the 2v2 matches where that would happen a lot.
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Offline Flaser

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Actual intercept mechanics and team work procedures should be introduced into the AI:

Intercept: lag and lead pursuit to set up intercept geometry.

If turnrate(ship)>turnrate(target) then:

Out of weapon range --> lead pursuit and try to maximize speed.
Just in weapon range --> just stay on target and advance to optimal range.
Optimal range --> weapon range * factor - or weapon range - factor. Factor - depends on tracking/turning speed vs. target evasion speed. While ttspeed>targspeed function should spit out a range from the enemy where the ship should ideally be.
Inside optimal range --> alternate lag pursuit to achieve shoot geometry and lead pursuit to maintain range.
Beyond optimal range, ergo too close --> lag pursuit, and decrease speed.

If turnrate(ship)<turnrate(target) then:

  If topspeed(ship)>topspeed(target) then:

Energy fighting. This ins't the same in space as it is in air, since in the air it is virtually impossible to reach the high energy plane while the later can attack.

In other words, the ship has to use the fact that it can outrun the other one. Tactic should reflect this:
-Advance to weapon range.
-Max shields for the frontal pass.
-Fire away. Power to weapons.
-Pick a random vector, preferably opposite or at least perpendicular to the target's and disengage and full burn.
-Power down weapons and power goes first to engines than to shields.

 If topspeed(ship)<topspeed(target) then:

Disengage unless ordered to or at least 3-1 numerical superiority is available.

Team work:
-Extended wingman system that during dogfights works in pairs. One ship always tags behind the other. If the lead is attacked, the wingman engages the attacker. Works vice-versa. Lead should be a disctinct role in the code and wingman too. These ships stay together no matter what. This would dramatically increase the effectiveness of a numerically superior force.

This would also mean you'd have to actually fly wingman for your mates and you'd need to take all your wingman to pick out someone from a numerically superior force. In this case (form on my wing), you wingman will attack the primary target, but they should peel off (in pairs if possible) to attack anyone who disengaged and turned to attack you. This leaves you free to take your kill.

The code should be revamped with visual cues to allow you to fufill the same function for someone else. A box should be around your "protected" at all times, and his attackers should be auto-targeted the same way asteroids are but with a different color.

The attacker meanwhile should check whether you're in escort position. If you're not and/or not enough guys are flying wingmen for him, he should disengage his run, and help out until he gets proper escort and once again can resume his run.

This only applies for fighters. Bombers should stick to bombing as they have no business chasing down fighters. Instead the lead bomber should check whether the whole wing has enough cover as a whole and disengage (in formation) if they don't and request further cover.

-Redefinition of Attack my Target Order: This isn't strictly a comm's order, it should be possible to put this on a key/button binding. Similar to the fire missiles on my target script of BTRL. This is an attack run. The same as Engage my target (see below), except, once the strafing run is complete (dist--(ship)-(target)<factor), the ships automatically rejoin your formation. You take your wing out, and through the maneuvers you deem appropriate, set up the next run, then once again give the order/push the button.
--Difference from "OLD" Attack my target: Ships auto-bracket (see below) the target (see below) if in a loose formation (see below) and return to formation once the run is complete.

-Bracketing: when engaging a single target, instead mindlessly going after if, your wingman should set up a bracket: he moves away from your vector to the target until his vector and your own form a considerable angle...in the least he should put a 50-100 meter separation between the two of you.

-New selection submenu: Ships in my wing, should be before "All Ships" and after "Alpha", "Beta", "Gamma" etc. in the list.

-New order submenu: Formations
--Tight formation: ships on your wing stay in formation no matter what, default for bombers.
--Rigid formation: ships on your wing stay in formation during the pass (engage target), and only disengage to save themselves or protect the ship they cover.
--Flexible formation: ships on your wing automatically bracket during attacks, disengage to fly cover or evade fire, return to formation if engage order was given.
--Leave formation: selected ships leave your wing. They autoform pairs and wings, with bias toward reforming their original wing.

-New order: Engage my target: Ships act according to the formation given during the initial attack, but they do NOT rejoin formation; instead they remain in the furball. Wingmen still cover their Lead.

-Bracket positions: Alpha 2 - on your left slightly behind you. He should be your default wingman and shoud fly cover for you even while bracketing. Alpha 3 - above you (this is because this way you make your bracket 3 dimensional and harder to escape from), Alpha 4 should be by default Alpha 3's wingman. When bracketing he flys next to Alpha 3. Alpha 4/5- on your right. (We don't want to put ships below you, as you can't quickly check them as most fighters typically can't see in that direction). Alpha 6 - flying wingman for Alpha 5, or below you if separately ordered to attack.

A modification of Protect my target:  This makes the ship a wingman of the target if it's a fighter or bomber.

Fighter/Bomber cooperation:
-New order: Protect Wing. The order can only be given to a whole wing. The fighters will spread around the bombers (in pairs) if in flexible formation, or fly in formation slightly behind them if in rigid/tight formation. A "mini strat routine" should determine how many ships to send to each attaker. If only 1-group attacks the protected 3/4-4/5 of the force should be sent keeping at least a pair next to the protected in reserve. If more groups are attacking the 3/4-4/5 "taskforce" is divided between them with at least a pair to each group. A pair should still be kept in reserve.

When in protect wing mode, instead fighting individual targets, the pair should engage each and every ship in the attacking wing. Reason: they break the enemy's formation and force them to go evasive, gaining time for the protected to escape and the other guards to aid in the fight.
--Addition: Strafing run. Should be used if the target wing is in formation. The pair in protect wing mode should fire along a preset line. These lines (and turn rates) should be calculated from the enemy ships's position. Simplest solution: the line between two attackers. The only demand is that the pair should choose a different pair of attackers compared to each other.

-Staggered attack: This should be both used in Engage/Attack and Protect functions. Should be a similar key/button-binding to "Attack my Target" except, this is a "mode selector". When is staggered mode, ships ordered to attack or attacking on their own, will stagger their formation. This should only be used against numerically lesser targets.

The staggering allows the ships delayed behind the front attacker to take advantage of the blunders/changed facing of the engaged enemy and it also makes them better suited to still pursue the target if he somehow escaped the pursuit geometry of the initial attackers.
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Offline chief1983

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Flippin brilliant Flaser, I love it (what I've read so far).  I'm gonna read the rest at home later.
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