Author Topic: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.  (Read 8168 times)

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Ai that actually focusses on the fighter that is behind them (Alright, many human players don't do that either (And don't use the serapis for that reason), but AI does not have an 1.5 armor multiplier).

The worst case of when they don't is when the AI is assigned to protect a cruiser that is rather far away. They speed towards the cruiser, completely ignoring the dragons who calmly fly behind them and blow thier shields and armor away.


 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
The AI should learn how to fire different torpedoes. The Cyclops can be launched about 1000m away from a target subsystem to score a hit, but a Helios needs to be shot at 500m WHILE the ship is on afterburn.

On lower difficulty levels, it seems that the AI only uses one primary gun bank, even when it is loaded with two different gun configurations.

The AI isn't fully experienced with effective shield management either, nor do they seem to fear getting hit by an AAA.

The worst case of when they don't is when the AI is assigned to protect a cruiser that is rather far away. They speed towards the cruiser, completely ignoring the dragons who calmly fly behind them and blow thier shields and armor away.

You can get that from Alpha 2 in A Game of TAG.
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
No jousting, i.e charging straight at you guns blazing.

Also, bombers should utilize their afterburners while on their bombing runs rather than just to evade.
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Offline Snail

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
No jousting, i.e charging straight at you guns blazing.
If you do the same thing on insane to a charging AI, you die. And even if you do survive, one of their friends comes by and kills you.

 

Offline Retsof

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Instead if trying to program in common sense, make it so that it can learn.  :P (Impossible I know, but it would be so awesome)
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Offline Excalibur

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
-When head on charging, you can dodge just before the AI's stuff hits you, and it keeps flying straight.
-AI that doesn't return to base in front of a wing of Erinyes armed with Kaysers.
-Also, could we leave the old AI options available as well when these new ones are implemented? Because it is fun to sometimes use not-so-smart AI, even if it is in easy.
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Offline Retsof

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
AI that departs when at critical hull damage.
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Offline S-99

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Have the ai switch to the most appropriate weapon in it's loadout depending on what it's attacking.

You mean this androgeous exeunt?
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
If you do the same thing on insane to a charging AI, you die. And even if you do survive, one of their friends comes by and kills you.

I did just that in INFA! Charged and died on the highest difficulty level. :D
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Offline Topgun

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Capships that have shields should increase energy to the side that they are getting hit on the most so that they don't get pounded on from one side.
the same could be applied to fighters, but it's not as bad with them.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Have the ai switch to the most appropriate weapon in it's loadout depending on what it's attacking.

You mean this androgeous exeunt?

Something like that, but my point is that, on lower difficulty levels, the AI uses only one bank to shoot, even if firing both banks may give them a huge advantage.
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline Topgun

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
make the ai like it is on insane but keep the penalties that it gets so that it's a bit easier on easy.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
make the ai like it is on insane but keep the penalties that it gets so that it's a bit easier on easy.

Penalties like the reduced fire rate, perhaps. :nod:

The only problem with this is that it may raise the learning curve a little. :nervous:
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Quote: Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 1845hrs UTC, #gaming
The_E
behold the power of this fully armed and operational recluse

z64555
but does it destroy planets with a turbo laser

 

Offline Topgun

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
so? it's fine as long as it doesn't effect the retail campaign.
EDIT: just not the thing that makes the ai on insane never miss the lead indicator. that's ridiculous!

 
Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
After testing the AI for a little bit on Insane lvl.  I can only say one thing:
Make them more aggressive!
I mean, when you start to hit its hull AI starts to panic. They just stop attacking you and start doing poor evasive maneuvers until you stop shooting at it. No real human does that. From my experience I can say, that unless we`re in a real trouble, we turn as fast as we can to kill the enemy before it kills us and a few hits on hull doesn't change that.
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
I have a suggestion. If the AI is travelling waypoints, please for the love of God make it NOT go into evasive manuveurs just because a shot went close by to him. I'm not saying I shoot my team mates here. Cause I don't! But sometimes a stray projectile accidentally flies past them and they start going all evasive and loosing their waypoints.
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Offline Fabian

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
AI that departs when at critical hull damage.

I tried to implement that as an easy way of trying out my modular apporach.

It works, however:

- There are hits that get not reported to the ai_ship_hit function (this might be a bug)
- I made it so, that if its a friendly fighter or bomber, that it departs when its on 15-30% full strength left.

This might to seem much, however already with that value, most ships still do get destroyed and only seldom one is able to escape.

Ideas how to improve that or is it just "realistic"?

I also found out about the AI:

* The behavior that the AI should not go after followers when heading to a far-away to-be-protected target is actually _wanted_ by [V]. (and commented in code)

* The same behavior pretty much applies, when heading to destroy a target.

* The AI cannot hit other AI ships. Friendly fire is only enabled for the player.

What would be a good tactic to destroy / guard a long-way-to-go remote target and not get destroyed by followers while heading to it?

( I know that glide is ideal for that ...)

I tried it out in bearbaiting stopping, using first C-3-9 letting them fly out far away and then C-3-8 and I saw my wing-man get pummeled by the followers with ease and no resistance ...

So thats a good test-case ...

However while not being pummeled you do not need to get distracted too much as well, else the to guarded object is toast before you arrive ...

How do we humans judge that? How should a AI judge that?

Also: How do you think could the paths when flying in formation be improved?

I already thought about applying wing-man tactics. (i.e. A3 guards A4 and A4 guards A3).

Kind of: Break-and-Attack, but keep an eye on each other.

Best Wishes,

Fabian

 

Offline Bob-san

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
How about this: spraying primary fire from a distance? If they always follow the lead indicator exactly, all a player needs to do is keep distance and keep moving and they will rarely be hit. If the AI starts to spray primary fire more, they make your job a bit more difficult and make it follow a human's inability to always aim exactly.

Other than that, I'd like to see the AI bring their maneuverable ships to 1/3 speed and basically be a slow-turret. If a missile comes towards them, they use countermeasures. When they're low (say 5 left) or out, they will hit the afterburner to avoid an incoming missile and head inside its turning radius. It works incredibly well in just about everything, as entering inside the radius makes the missile break lock.

Also, I'd like to see better use of "mini-missile" weapons, in that they won't use them when other allies are close. I've seen fighters use these weapons behind a friendly wing under attack, and unfortunately it ended up making the enemy's job easier.

I'd like to see the AI using larger ships for cover more effectively.

I'd like to see the AI attack bombers more effectively--as a player, I've had great success keeping any fighter directly above me in my Ursa. The turret will fire and keep any maneuverable fighter (coughUlyssescough) damaged and moving, and they never can do damage.

I'd also like to see the AI focus more on turrets, and have the destruction of the Weapons subsystem on capships more effective--making it so all weapons are much less accurate or much less damaging.
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Offline Mobius

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Quote
2) Open the formation. Bombers are damn easy to kill when they're all together. The distance should be increased.

Actually, if the bomber has some turrets, it is better if they fly in formation. If they don't have any, they should spread out.

Bomber turrets are almost useless, they don't make the difference in an interception mission. Bomber wings need to open the formation in order to make sure that a threat for a single bomber doesn't turn into a threat for the entire wing.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: A new AI: Need (human) game tactics.
Bomber turrets are almost useless, they don't make the difference in an interception mission. Bomber wings need to open the formation in order to make sure that a threat for a single bomber doesn't turn into a threat for the entire wing.
They WOULD be useful if they fired faster and shot at whoever was trying to kill you, not who you have targetted.