[WMCoolmon]

As for whether humanity is ethically and morally capable of making the judgment, I call bull. Humanity has gotten itself in the worst situations for moral and ethical dilemmas. In the middle of a war started by unprovoked attacks and characterized by international backstabbing and ethnic cleansing, we invented a new way to blow ourselves all to hell.

Somehow, it hasn't come to pass yet. Given humanity's track record at holding off from guns and open warfare, that's pretty good. *crosses fingers*

But regardless, I'd hardly say that humanity is "ready" for many things yet, especially in the utilitarian way that you're advocating. You can always find evidence of corruption etc in the highest levels of government and business, people still abuse their position in regard to others on a daily basis, people still do things that they should know better about, people still practice racism, etc. If you take the stance that humanity has to be "ready" for things before they're invented, humanity will never be ready for anything. Humanity usually gets off its lazy arse in response to something new, and terrifying, makes angry demands briefly, and then finds a common equilibrium and plops back down on its couch and contentedly watches the world fly past.

It's the few people that are the movers and shakers and mess things up for everybody else by forcing them to change that keep the process going. Or mother nature does it for us. In this case, somebody is going to invent some kind of lifetime-extending thing, eventually, and it will come into the world with all the grace and poise and perfect timing of a screaming newborn infant on a TV drama.

[Flipside]

It's not a question of 'ready' as in 'ready, steady, go', it's a case of the fact we are totally unable to support the population with our already extended lifespan, since it has pretty much doubled in the West over the last 100 years.

To increase that more over a large portion of the population would create a demand we simply cannot meet, and to increase it over a small percentage of the population would create an Elitist society that would resented, feared and hated by those not part of it. A situation not a million miles from the situation we face today, but on a much larger scale.

Yes, it will get done eventually, but to throw this out into a world that cannot even support the people who are already alive would create chaos, I'm afraid I've never been particuarly proud of the fact that we as a race view things as 'Just because it's a bad idea, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it before someone else does.'. We have some wonderful weapons based on that exact theory.

As for ethical side of things, true from a personal ethics point of view, it doesn't matter, but what about from a country-wide ethics point of view, if we go back to that tyrant situation, it's not just the tyrant living for hundreds of years, it's the people suffering from it for an equal amount of time, and, since it has already been proved that Superpowers are more than happy to leap in guns blazing in the name of 'ethics', whether we like it or not, they play a role.

Edit: The real irony with 'someone else will do it if we don't' is that, once one group does it, everyone else will follow, so, rather than prevent something bad, it actually propagates it.

[TrashMan]

So if someone discovered the cure for the common cold, cancer and aids would you withdraw treatment from those who are afflicted by it? After all, "you'd have a population explosion the likes of which the world has never seen".

Death isn't a illlnes.
There is a big difference between finding cure for the sick and spending money and research on crap like this.

You all are chicken. Death is not to be feared. It happens. It's part of life.
People should focus on living what years they have in a good fashion, instead of wasting time trying to prolong those years.

[Ghostavo]

So if someone discovered the cure for the common cold, cancer and aids would you withdraw treatment from those who are afflicted by it? After all, "you'd have a population explosion the likes of which the world has never seen".

Death isn't a illness.
There is a big difference between finding cure for the sick and spending money and research on crap like this.

You all are chicken. Death is not to be feared. It happens. It's part of life.
People should focus on living what years they have in a good fashion, instead of wasting time trying to prolong those years.

If there's an hypothetical medicine that prevents natural death, it becomes a disease/illness/condition/whatever just like any other. What prevents us from immediately thinking so is because it's such a long standing... illness!

If people didn't focus on prolonging life, we wouldn't live past 20 or 30. And if I'm chicken because I welcome a way to prolong life, so be it. You on the other hand would get the same merit for being afraid of change. It happens. It's part of life.

[Snail]

If there's an hypothetical medicine that prevents natural death, it becomes a disease/illness/condition/whatever just like any other. What prevents us from immediately thinking so is because it's such a long standing... illness!

If people didn't focus on prolonging life, we wouldn't live past 20 or 30. And if I'm chicken because I welcome a way to prolong life, so be it. You on the other hand would get the same merit for being afraid of change. It happens. It's part of life.

This is a good post. Melikes.

[MP-Ryan]

Those advances could easily lead to to other discoveries leading to the cure for cancer,

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the wall.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to the wall.

Speak for yourself. I feel that I get that most of the time in Off-Topic Discussion and General FreeSpace Discussion.

[TrashMan]

If there's an hypothetical medicine that prevents natural death, it becomes a disease/illness/condition/whatever just like any other. What prevents us from immediately thinking so is because it's such a long standing... illness!

bullcrap.
Everything dies. Everything has an end. It's the law of the universe...entropy, chaos. You're just afraid to accept that fact.

If people didn't focus on prolonging life, we wouldn't live past 20 or 30. And if I'm chicken because I welcome a way to prolong life, so be it. You on the other hand would get the same merit for being afraid of change. It happens. It's part of life.

bullcrap again. Teh human lifespan has changed little since the beginning. Humans reached 80 years even in ye old times.

[Snail]

Everything dies. Everything has an end. It's the law of the universe...entropy, chaos. You're just afraid to accept that fact.

Hey. As I said before, this isn't about eternal life. This is just elongating your lifespan until you trip and fall, get into a car accident, catch super AIDS, get mauled by a pitbull, etc. etc. This isn't immortality. This is just adding a few extra years onto your life. It's like taking medicine. No difference, it's just on a larger scale.

bullcrap again. Teh human lifespan has changed little since the beginning. Humans reached 80 years even in ye old times.

Evidence for this fact?

[Ghostavo]

If there's an hypothetical medicine that prevents natural death, it becomes a disease/illness/condition/whatever just like any other. What prevents us from immediately thinking so is because it's such a long standing... illness!

bullcrap.
Everything dies. Everything has an end. It's the law of the universe...entropy, chaos. You're just afraid to accept that fact.

If there is a medicine that prevents natural death, people will not die natural deaths. Starvation and other diseases are another thing entirely. It's not about fear, it's about prolonging life. Just because you don't like it, and I do, doesn't mean it's about fear of dying.

If people didn't focus on prolonging life, we wouldn't live past 20 or 30. And if I'm chicken because I welcome a way to prolong life, so be it. You on the other hand would get the same merit for being afraid of change. It happens. It's part of life.

bullcrap again. The human lifespan has changed little since the beginning. Humans reached 80 years even in ye old times.

Because if people focus on prolonging their life, they will. Just because you don't see the minor ways to do this, doesn't mean it's not true. Personal hygiene comes to mind. So does having a balanced diet, exercising, etc... The only civilizations with such a great recorded longevity I remember are the ancient Greeks and Romans. Who took this very seriously.

[Snail]

Lets all stab ourselves!

[Admiral_Stones]

Lets all stab ourselves!

If the world continues to pervert like this, I'm in.

[Flipside]

Extending life using hygiene etc is a completely different thing to tinkering with things at a genetic level on a perfectly healthy organism.

Even those extended lifespans through hygiene have put pressure on humanity in general, the UK currently has far more old people than young and this is going to be a dilemma by the time I retire, there won't be enough people working to support out pensions which companies are happily spending.

It's not a question of what is 'ethical' or 'right' or anything, it's the fact that we simply aren't in a position to do it, and we certainly don't understand enough about the situation to do it safely, it's playing dice with genetics of an entire species that already makes higher demands of the environment than it can meet.

Playing with genetics is fair enough, we need to practice to learn, but the problem with many scientists is that they live so much in the world of hypothesis that some do not bother to look out their window and see fact.

[TrashMan]

If the world continues to pervert like this, I'm in.

Hopefully you won't have to stab anyone. Chances are we're gonna f*** ourselves up bad enough without any personal help from you.
But hey, be my guest. Go stab people.

*dons a titanium full plate armor*

[Spicious]

Extending life using hygiene etc is a completely different thing to tinkering with things at a genetic level on a perfectly healthy organism.

That distinction is arbitrary and subjective.

[Daeron]

Extending life using hygiene etc is a completely different thing to tinkering with things at a genetic level on a perfectly healthy organism.

That distinction is arbitrary and subjective.

Not to mention that you don't build up a strong immune system by killing every sort of bacteria in your surroundings.

[Flipside]

No it isn't, it's factual and definite.

We aren't talking about removing a parasite from on or in a cell here, we are talking about tinkering with things at a sub-cellular level. Like Stem Cell treatment etc, they are a completely different ball game from pasteurisation, antiseptics and other hygeine based products, one focuses on preventing infection, the other on treating them, one has no impact on the cells themselves, other than preventing infection, the other is all about affecting the cells directly.

And the whole 'sterile society' reducing immunity thing has been a subject of discussion for years.

I'm beginning to understand how MP-Ryan feels, people don't want to understand.

[TrashMan]

Why are you surprised? They never do.

After all, such things would wreck their dreams of ruling the world from a mighty throne for centuries.

[Flipside]

Why are you surprised? They never do.

After all, such things would wreck their dreams of ruling the world from a mighty throne for centuries.

And the rest of creation be damned. Very depressing, but ultimately, very human.

It's not often I agree with you, but I do now, though we both approach the same conclusion from different directions

[Daeron]

I disagree with the both of you.

I think.. to everyone posting in this thread, this is all about things that may happen way in the future. We're all pushing daisies for quite some time so to speak.

I mean.. can you truly say these kind of things aren't possible in 200 years.. maybe 500? You base this on what? To think we have all the answers in this age, is frankly foolish. But I'm sure people will make that claim well into the future, as they have for hundreds of years.

There are much smarter people in the world who see this kind of research as a real discipline in its own right. Yet you're saying that it is never going to happen? Never, ever?