[Kie99]

I guess people want to talk **** about America more than they want to click "Gold" on the ESPN website to rank the medals that way.

It's not about America, it's about an American website being Biased, and the fact the number of medals is the default.

[WMCoolmon]

That's right, you want to talk **** about America. I'm sure that every country that participated in the Olympics devoted a disproportionate amount of time and attention to their athletes and the number of medals won. Yet I don't see you or karajorma complaining about that.

If everybody were to follow your standards, every news station would be showing the same thing, talking about all the athletes from first-world nations who had the luxury of sending a lot of athletes who won a lot of medals. That would be unreasonable and inconsiderate to those countries who only sent a few athletes, but still managed to win a medal or even just break some records. Or hell, maybe just the big deal is that they were able to participate this year at all.

Let me ask you this. Did you care enough, in your crusade against bias, to actually check the websites of Mauritius, Togo, and Moldova? Or did you just kind of skip over those because you didn't care?

And in case you ask, I didn't bother to look either, but neither am I going to complain if they decide to list themselves first.

[karajorma]

That's right, you want to talk **** about America. I'm sure that every country that participated in the Olympics devoted a disproportionate amount of time and attention to their athletes and the number of medals won. Yet I don't see you or karajorma complaining about that.

And there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure Why are you assuming I should be outraged by that? I'm sure Uzbekistan spent a disproportionate amount of time on their medals and medal hopes too. Good on them. The people watching the Olympics are always going to be disproportionately interested in their own countries progress. If Moldova wants to devote half their Olympics airtime to athletes from Moldova and the population like that then so be it.

If everybody were to follow your standards, every news station would be showing the same thing, talking about all the athletes from first-world nations who had the luxury of sending a lot of athletes who won a lot of medals.

What standard? No was talking about airtime devoted to each country until you just brought it up.

Let me ask you this. Did you care enough, in your crusade against bias, to actually check the websites of Mauritius, Togo, and Moldova? Or did you just kind of skip over those because you didn't care?

Did anyone link one of those sites? Someone linked an American site. Had someone linked a Mauritian site which put them at the top we'd have laughed heartily at it too. But I've got better things to do than go looking for websites from  Moldova on the off-chance that they might be funny.

[WMCoolmon]

And there is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure Why are you assuming I should be outraged by that? I'm sure Uzbekistan spent a disproportionate amount of time on their medals and medal hopes too. Good on them. The people watching the Olympics are always going to be disproportionately interested in their own countries progress. If Moldova wants to devote half their Olympics airtime to athletes from Moldova and the population like that then so be it.

I'm assuming you're "outraged"? That's funny, I don't remember accusing you of being outraged...probably because I didn't.

What standard? No was talking about airtime devoted to each country until you just brought it up.

Not your standard, Kie's standard - that being biased enough to simply put things in the order that puts the thing that your target audience is interested in to be in the most prominent position is wrong, even when the facts are correct.

Did anyone link one of those sites? Someone linked an American site. Had someone linked a Mauritian site which put them at the top we'd have laughed heartily at it too. But I've got better things to do than go looking for websites from  Moldova on the off-chance that they might be funny.

They had the passion, raw talent, energy, and willingness to do what it takes and make whatever personal sacrifices are necessary to go to the Olympics, compete against the best athletes the world has to offer, and managed to achieve a medal. Maybe not the best medal, but still a medal. So their country decides to recognize them for representing their country at the Olympics, for choosing to believe in something greater than themselves, and having achieved something that both the athlete and their country can be proud of.

And you can't see anything in that but an excuse to laugh at a country?

I'm not saying that equal treatment is right. I'm saying that this whole affair, that a country should treat its athletes impartially, is absurd. It goes against the spirit of the Olympics and against human nature. There's a reason that they don't have all the athletes strip down, shave their head, and slap a number on to their chest and demand that they give up all national affinity for the duration of the games, and it's got nothing to do with athletic performance.

[Al Tarket]

you wouldn't be saying that to an athlete in any sport who competes for their country. that national affinity defiantly matters to each athlete.

an example of that was togo, that athlete went on that rapids knowing he could get his homes first medal and succeed and if you saw the end of that round after he just finished, he broke his paddle in half and celebrated and i imagined the people of togo really enjoyed that.

so what if these countries home website has then up top even with just one medal, they deserve to do so and express some pride in their work they put into it. on the other end of the scale if you got a country who just does it every time its probably one of these easy 'to find your country' results, it has absolutely anything to do with biased media. as for airtime, Uzbekistan and Moldova has only a dozen or two athletes and if they wish to devote their airtime to it, so be it. it's not up to you to decide that.

[karajorma]

I'm assuming you're "outraged"? That's funny, I don't remember accusing you of being outraged...probably because I didn't.

You said i should be arguing against it.

I'm sure that every country that participated in the Olympics devoted a disproportionate amount of time and attention to their athletes and the number of medals won. Yet I don't see you or karajorma complaining about that.

So again. Why the hell do you feel I should be complaining about it? Cause I'm really not.

They had the passion, raw talent, energy, and willingness to do what it takes and make whatever personal sacrifices are necessary to go to the Olympics, compete against the best athletes the world has to offer, and managed to achieve a medal. Maybe not the best medal, but still a medal. So their country decides to recognize them for representing their country at the Olympics, for choosing to believe in something greater than themselves, and having achieved something that both the athlete and their country can be proud of.

And you can't see anything in that but an excuse to laugh at a country?

What the hell are you arguing about now? You seem to having both sides of this argument in your head without any relation to what I'm actually posting.

I have absolutely no problem with countries being proud of their achievements. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. They can cheer their athletes when they come home. They can call them heroes and be rightfully proud that they did so well against countries which spend more money and time on the Olympics than they do. I don't find any of that funny.

However if a country which won one silver medal organises the Olympics table to put them at the top and say "WE WON THE OLYMPICS!" then yes I'm going to laugh at them cause it's delusional.

I'm not saying that equal treatment is right. I'm saying that this whole affair, that a country should treat its athletes impartially, is absurd.

At what point did you form the opinion that I don't think it's absurd? Did I ever say they should? In fact didn't I just say the exact opposite in my last post?

I'm sure Uzbekistan spent a disproportionate amount of time on their medals and medal hopes too. Good on them.

[Al Tarket]

well think of it this way karajorma, just yourself in the shows of someone who has never scored a point in a very competitive event in over 6 years and you don't expect any points this time either, however you do better but not by much, then you get a bit of luck and finally score that point, your completely estatic with the result, it would be like winning the championship in comparison. now how would you feel honestly after all that turmoil to have someone laugh at you saying, your crap and that was a piss poor result then laughs at you? even so you would be annoyed beyond belief because you really tried hard knowing its next to impossible with such a great competitive field.

my point is i would applaud thier effort knowing they are the real underdogs and not point and laugh at them. however if you think that is wise so be it.

[Ghostavo]

Damnit people, when will you learn.

The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team events and not between countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Charter#Chapter_1:_The_Olympic_Movement_and_its_Action

[Al Tarket]

that seems to be an invalid rule, especially when celebrating your win right after with your national flag and national anthem, not only that but a small flag appears as cgi onscreen on a live feed or next to a persons name. so much for that rule... also the medal tables go against that rule also.

[Ghostavo]

Not following it demeans the athletes themselves. It's supposed to be their win, not their country's.

Besides, it's in the first chapter of the bloody Olympic Charter!

[karajorma]

Not following it demeans the athletes themselves. It's supposed to be their win, not their country's.

Fine. I'll have the money back we paid them to train with then.


@Al Tarket : Try actually reading what I wrote. Then comment.

[Ghostavo]

See? Everyone wins! And I'd wager that in some events, the athletes were not trained by their nacional association coach or equivalent, but by their club or even their own coach. Meaning they spent their own money in training.

Besides, there have been independent athletes in the Olympics.

[BlackDove]

Wat?

It's over?

Man I didn't even see any of it.

Who won?

[karajorma]

Besides, there have been independent athletes in the Olympics.

Fine. We can add an independent category for them.

But I suspect if you asked most of the athletes concerned they are proud to represent their country.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Wat?

It's over?

Man I didn't even see any of it.

Who won?

We should have swapped places for the previous sixteen days...

[Ghostavo]

Besides, there have been independent athletes in the Olympics.

Fine. We can add an independent category for them.

But I suspect if you asked most of the athletes concerned they are proud to represent their country.

But that's the thing, they aren't representing their country, they are representing themselves. The Olympic games are supposed to be about them, the best athletes in the world, not where they came from.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Perhaps that was true last time, Ghost, but it seems that it has changed. Formula 1 used to be pretty simple too; one man builds a car, races around a track with other people who built their own cars, and one man wins the prize money.*

* - According to Jeremy Clarkson, that is.[size]

[karajorma]

But that's the thing, they aren't representing their country, they are representing themselves.

Which brings me back to my argument that they can damn well pay for themselves to be there in that case.


I can't speak for other countries but I know that Team GB were paid a very large amount of cash from lottery grants that could have been spent on other things. I don't mind cause they are representing the country. If you want to argue that they aren't then explain why the country should pay for them?

[Ghostavo]

I have no idea why they would pay for it. My reasoning is that if it's the athletes that are competing, their win should be their own.

If not, then having multiple athletes from the same country competing in the same event is somewhat uncompetitive.

[karajorma]

Let me put it this way. If top scorer of the year can be won by Cristiano Ronaldo or Wayne Rooney do you say it's uncompetitive because they both play for Manchester United? Would you say that everyone should pick one individual they like and not be able to say that they don't care who wins as long as it's a Man U player who beats everyone else?

In the case of the Olympics there is more personal achievement in winning an individual event than in a team sport like football but that doesn't mean you can simply discount the team's achievement completely.