Author Topic: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"  (Read 30786 times)

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
What this man said.  Quite frankly, realistic space travel as we know it utterly sucks.  Chemical rockets burning massive amounts of fuel to achieve low-Earth orbit?  Long-distance missions taking more than a decade to reach Pluto?  Even the most remotely plausible high-speed propulsion systems always being limited by the persistent bastard that is relativity?  **** all that.  I want my damn warp/hyperspace/subspace drives already. :p

       So 2001 and 2010 are bad movies?

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
I've never seen either, so I couldn't tell you, but I do know that they're going from an entirely different vein of sci-fi than that which I usually prefer.  I'm much more in the Star Wars "slower-than-light lasers and massive explosions in space" school. :p

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
2001 is good, 2010 is ok, allegedly there was a 2015 in the works.... I rmember seeing it on film-something or other (BBC Review show) with barry norman years ago. The Jovians were at war with us and it was meant to be worse than Starship Troopers 2.

Never ehard from it since. Actually i might check IMDB :nod:
Edit- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364192/ is all there is, doesn't sound right though..

I know that books three and four are calle 2064 and 3001. No joy looking for those titles though :bah:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 09:18:19 pm by Colonol Dekker »
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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
I've never seen either, so I couldn't tell you, but I do know that they're going from an entirely different vein of sci-fi than that which I usually prefer.  I'm much more in the Star Wars "slower-than-light lasers and massive explosions in space" school. :p

      Perhaps a better question is what have you seen of realistic sci-fi? Or are you assuming its bad because the very concept turns you off?

       As an example, there is the school of thought that, ships need to be within spitting distance of one-another to make for an interesting battle. But then JMS made the battle of Gorash 7 in B5 where the Narn and Shadow ships are never within visual range (save the fighters) but the battle is still very entertaining. He then of course, proceeded to completely ignore the fact that he could do that sort of battle and went back to everything within spitting distance.

       Even realistic sci-fi can be done well and interesting. The appeal factor of a given story is the story itself, and how it's presented, not whether or not fighters fly like WW2 craft or like they should in a zero-g environment. The very idea of realistic sci fi might be boring, but then again, having a ship get hit by a virtual shotgun blast of metal flying at relativistic speeds can be very entertaining if presented in a smart way. Some genres, like Batteletech for example are pretty realistic save for the theoretical use of the hyperspace jump. But most insystem travel to any area of interest is measured in weeks at most, and then when the battle is joined the ships are either fighting at the jump point itself or near the planet of interest so you get a pseudo-realistic setting with the potential to have somewhat entertaining battles. Similar in many ways to Freespace save the lack of in-system jumps.

 

Offline MT

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
I've never seen either, so I couldn't tell you, but I do know that they're going from an entirely different vein of sci-fi than that which I usually prefer.  I'm much more in the Star Wars "slower-than-light lasers and massive explosions in space" school. :p

      Perhaps a better question is what have you seen of realistic sci-fi? Or are you assuming its bad because the very concept turns you off?

       As an example, there is the school of thought that, ships need to be within spitting distance of one-another to make for an interesting battle. But then JMS made the battle of Gorash 7 in B5 where the Narn and Shadow ships are never within visual range (save the fighters) but the battle is still very entertaining. He then of course, proceeded to completely ignore the fact that he could do that sort of battle and went back to everything within spitting distance.

       Even realistic sci-fi can be done well and interesting. The appeal factor of a given story is the story itself, and how it's presented, not whether or not fighters fly like WW2 craft or like they should in a zero-g environment. The very idea of realistic sci fi might be boring, but then again, having a ship get hit by a virtual shotgun blast of metal flying at relativistic speeds can be very entertaining if presented in a smart way. Some genres, like Batteletech for example are pretty realistic save for the theoretical use of the hyperspace jump. But most insystem travel to any area of interest is measured in weeks at most, and then when the battle is joined the ships are either fighting at the jump point itself or near the planet of interest so you get a pseudo-realistic setting with the potential to have somewhat entertaining battles. Similar in many ways to Freespace save the lack of in-system jumps.

I've read some CBT books, played MW4 and read pages off sarna.net. TBH, CBT is utterly unrealistic. Consider a modern MBT in the likes of Leopard 2, Challenger 2 and M1A2. Those tanks weigh in the range of 60-70 tonnes. Let's say we extrapolate such designs of such a weight class of armoured vehicles into the 30th century.

For a mech of that weight class, we are talking about Mad Dog to Warhammer. Those mechs are far larger in volume and surface area than tanks of the equivalent weight, which will, by real physics, given them paper thin armour compared to the tanks. Yet we see mechs being the king of the battlefield.

If we apply the same materials and technology onto armoured vehicles, they would be turning those fancy mechs into scrap metal with rail guns firing fin stabilized "sabot" shots while those melon shaped gauss rounds be bouncing off the glacial armour of tanks.

Of course, such a rational analysis would turn a geeky "cool" game with big shiny mechs into a dry military simulation like Harpoon.


Another thing, the rate of scientific advance is morbidly slow. While the IS states were blasting each other back to the stone age, the Kerensky formed clans should have leapfrogged in terms of technology (especially given their interest in warfare) to the stage that they should have
melted any IS army they touch, instead of facing the battlefield reverses as they did (guerrilla actions aside). The clans even lose the Trial of Refusal on the invasion of the IS and the IS forces didn't even have access to Clan tech.

Even after the arrival of the clans and temporary reformation of the Star League, the IS states with their vast amount of manpower, still couldn't reverse engineer clan tech and out compete the Clans in terms of tech. The FC/FS even developed their "black boxes" prior to the 4th Succession War and never took them further technologically or use them more widely. Instead, they relied (post 4th Succession War) on ComStar for communications, and the ComStar neutrality pledge is not worth the breath used to speak it, makes no military sense. The term "secure communications" does not seem exist in the CBT universe. It's like the US military using Nokia phones and a Nokia operated network for their secure communications.

I think I'll just stop here.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
If a story is good enough for the suspension of belief to work, then it doesn't really matter in my opinion. It's like complaining that the Sword of Isildur could never be re-forged properly because there would be micro-imperfections in the steel that would make it weak. That might be true, but nobody cares, Magic is the technojargon of Fantasy novels.

Come to think of it, Spaceships powered by magic could make an interesting theme if done properly ;)

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
      Perhaps a better question is what have you seen of realistic sci-fi? Or are you assuming its bad because the very concept turns you off?
To be perfectly honest, the only thing I've seen of even semi-realistic sci-fi was a few minutes of the new BSG.  My sci-fi exposure as a whole is mostly limited to the general Star Trek/Star Wars universes, with a smattering of games and anime series thrown in for good measure.  While I can certainly appreciate an author's desire to craft a realistic view of scientific progress in the future (which is one of the reasons I've wanted to try out the anime series Planetes for some time now), that sort of approach has always felt fundamentally limiting to me.  I suppose it's a function of my being somewhat frustrated by seeing all of these fantastical space-based settings and knowing that there's no way in hell I'll get to do so much as float around out there, much less visit another planet (or fly around in a spaceship taking out xenocidal aliens).  That cheesy 1950s-esque view of the future of space travel has become sadly unfulfilled as the realities and practicalities of the world have overtaken it, and I kind of figure that, if I'll never get to experience flights of fancy like that in real life, at least I can seek out the sort of entertainment that lets me do so vicariously.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
It was said somewhere by V that fighters are anti-grav capable.
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
Come to think of it, Spaceships powered by magic could make an interesting theme if done properly ;)
Don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind ... several dozen times ... In actual fact, the original incarnation of my Worldslayer ships were powered by magic ... Then I changed it, and seperated my fantasy and science fiction universes into two seperate universes, although some of my earlier stories still have them as a single universe.
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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
Even after the arrival of the clans and temporary reformation of the Star League, the IS states with their vast amount of manpower, still couldn't reverse engineer clan tech and out compete the Clans in terms of tech. The FC/FS even developed their "black boxes" prior to the 4th Succession War and never took them further technologically or use them more widely. Instead, they relied (post 4th Succession War) on ComStar for communications, and the ComStar neutrality pledge is not worth the breath used to speak it, makes no military sense. The term "secure communications" does not seem exist in the CBT universe. It's like the US military using Nokia phones and a Nokia operated network for their secure communications.

I think I'll just stop here.

    Oh I dont disagree with you. CBT is wildly unrealistic for many reason beyond even the ones you mentioned (ie weapon ranges).
    But, the technology itself is fairly realistic in theory if you throw out all of the stuff that doesn't make sense (which of course is a statement which makes no sense, but . .  ). I mean the ships don't have gravity, the mechs are ludicrous but there's no such thing as energy shields. Technology wise, there's not that much suspension of disbelief. But there is of course a lot of suspension when it comes to how the technology is implemented, how it progresses and how it is represented within the game.  Could be worse.
     Realism-wise, something like Dream Pod 9's stuff like Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles blows CBT out of the water.

It was said somewhere by V that fighters are anti-grav capable.

       Why does the Hapshetsut used a thruster-controlled launch pad to bring fighters up to the launch port though?
       Which imo is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in Freespace, but some people differ on that.

Come to think of it, Spaceships powered by magic could make an interesting theme if done properly ;)
Don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind ... several dozen times ... In actual fact, the original incarnation of my Worldslayer ships were powered by magic ... Then I changed it, and seperated my fantasy and science fiction universes into two seperate universes, although some of my earlier stories still have them as a single universe.

       It's certainly crossed my mind a few times, though more in terms of visual style in doodles and drawings rather than anything FS2 modding related. Take treasure planet for example. Crap movie, but some the concept art is pretty damn nice to look at.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
*snip*

All that's true, but you can't deny CBT makes for awesome games. I used to think CBT was God-like, but then I grew up.
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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
*snip*

All that's true, but you can't deny CBT makes for awesome games. I used to think CBT was God-like, but then I grew up.

       I play it somewhat regularly actually, though . . .  less often that I used to. That sort of pass time is losing it's appeal for me.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
Amusingly, the original Mobile Suit Gundam was fairly realistic in that it makes something of a big deal in the non-show materials about how the mobile suit was not designed for land warfare (instead, it was all about the Newtonian physics of being able to uses its limbs to orient itself in space!), and devotes an episode or two to the Federation's tanks laying the smackdown on Zakus once they realized that its reputation for space-based badassery did not apply. Most of the shows that it spawned behaved much more poorly about this though, and the titular mobile suit has been described as "a Super Robot in a Real Robot's world."

A number of other early anime entries into the mecha genre come to mind as well, like VOTOMS (whose mecha don't even really walk) or Patlabor (in which a mecha the size of an Abrams is armed like a Bradley and gets taken down quickly and painlessly by a conventional armored vehicle).

« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 12:52:04 am by NGTM-1R »
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Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
Most of the shows that it spawned behaved much more poorly about this though...
*cough*gundamseeddestiny*cough*

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
A number of other early anime entries into the mecha genre come to mind as well, like VOTOMS (whose mecha don't even really walk) or Patlabor (in which a mecha the size of an Abrams is armed like a Bradley and gets taken down quickly and painlessly by a conventional armored vehicle).

      Well VOTOMs and Heavy Gear (which is heavily based upon the former) are basically armoured power suits rather than walking tanks. So they're basically heavy infantry. And in both genres they either have the ability to walk or switch over to a wheel or tread based system for faster movement over flat terrain. Hell of a lot more realistic.

    
       Though with the exception of Gundam, none of these really apply to Freespace and I'm guessing the thread has wandered a little off-topic by now. Though speaking of Gundam, that's the one thing that always turned me off to it. That the main character wasn't just a grunt, but they tended to be an invincible force of nature whose mobile suit could shatter entire fleets. I actually asked on the game-warden forum how they planned to address that sort of issue with the Gundam Seed mod for freespace but I don't think my question has garnered a response yet.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
:lol:

I love this place, from Galatea to Gundam in 4 pages ;)

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
      Though with the exception of Gundam, none of these really apply to Freespace and I'm guessing the thread has wandered a little off-topic by now. Though speaking of Gundam, that's the one thing that always turned me off to it. That the main character wasn't just a grunt, but they tended to be an invincible force of nature whose mobile suit could shatter entire fleets.
Gundam Wing was probably the one series most blatantly doing this. Anything the Gundam Boys touched became GODLIKE, even grunt units they had no problem blowing away with few hits earlier on. And beam sabers became beam bats when used against Gundams themselves.

I actually asked on the game-warden forum how they planned to address that sort of issue with the Gundam Seed mod for freespace but I don't think my question has garnered a response yet.
I think the problem being that anything designated as a "Gundam" is generally a high performance, usually experimental, mobile suit, that's meant to represent a concentration of force unlike anything seen in their universe. Its like a commando unit, versus the mass production models. It will be interesting to see how they balance it though, which I suspect will be the main problem they encounter.

:lol:

I love this place, from Galatea to Gundam in 4 pages ;)
Well, they both start with G ... :p
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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
I actually asked on the game-warden forum how they planned to address that sort of issue with the Gundam Seed mod for freespace but I don't think my question has garnered a response yet.
I think the problem being that anything designated as a "Gundam" is generally a high performance, usually experimental, mobile suit, that's meant to represent a concentration of force unlike anything seen in their universe. Its like a commando unit, versus the mass production models. It will be interesting to see how they balance it though, which I suspect will be the main problem they encounter.

      Well yeah I know the Gundam tend to be the experiemental, top of the line, one of a kind sorta suits. But Alpha 1, the player is already a godlike creation laying smack across the universe. Give him a toy which is far superior to that of the enemy and some balance issues creep into things. Unless the player is always going to be drastically outnumbered or somesuch thing. Who knows, will be interesting to see what they do if anything ever comes of it.

 

Offline Stormkeeper

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
      Well yeah I know the Gundam tend to be the experiemental, top of the line, one of a kind sorta suits. But Alpha 1, the player is already a godlike creation laying smack across the universe. Give him a toy which is far superior to that of the enemy and some balance issues creep into things. Unless the player is always going to be drastically outnumbered or somesuch thing. Who knows, will be interesting to see what they do if anything ever comes of it.
Huh. I forgot that Alpha 1 would be piloting it. That'd be like having a fleet of Lucifers at your disposal 24/7. Might even be able to pwn Jesus Kira.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: The destruction of the Galatea "spoilers"
Realistic space travel, a tht moment, takes way too long. How long does it take for a space probe to get past Pluto? :p

About Gundam, I'm actually quite amazed that these mobile suits are, what, about sixty to eighty feet tall? And yet they can move about so freely.

Fiction exists because there has to be an outlet for us to be ludicrous. Of course, if the ten dimensions theory is fact, then fiction is fact too. :D

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