[chief1983]

Silly fundies...

[tinfoil]

Sorry, I didn't mean that everything I ranted about was socially liberal but it probably sounded that way.  Both sides of the government keep interfering more than they should though.

It didn't seem socially liberal to me. it just seemed pretty logical.

[karajorma]

Silly fundies...

Yeah. I love that site. Been ages since I last visited. Glad to see this one still in the top 10 though.

Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims.

[Rick James]

I really do wish there was some way to get to a comfortable, sustainable population of 2 billion without being incredibly mean to a lot of people :-(

There is. It's called education.

Only fundamentalists consider that mean.

Indeed. To all forum members who don't use condoms...Happy Father's Day.

[Spicious]

A far better way to control population is to simply not get pregnant in the first place. for god's sake the reason people get abortions is because they fail to take the precautions.

How is it far better?

Surely, it would be even better to cull all the religious crazies, calling it the "rapture". That way everyone's happy!

[tinfoil]

Ok.
when does it start?

[TrashMan]

Silly fundies...

It makes me wonder how may of those "quotes" were invented and put on that site for kicks (and not by fundies). Not that fundies would need help in that deparment. People say stupid things as a general rule and being irrational and "driven" only strengthens that tendancy.

[Galemp]

That's why every quote comes with an authentic link to the very message board it was posted on! Just look.

[KappaWing]

Many of them are obvious sarcasm though.

I think. 

[Goober5000]

I doubt that all, or even most, are.

However, the intelligence of fundamentalists is distributed on a bell curve just like the intelligence of atheists and the intelligence of everyone else.  If you take all your samples from one end of the curve, you're obviously going to skew the results.

[StarSlayer]

Silly fundies...

Yeah. I love that site. Been ages since I last visited. Glad to see this one still in the top 10 though.

Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims.

Hell's teeth I've never seen that site before, and i almost wish i hadn't.  

[Akalabeth Angel]

Why the frack do people want socially liberal?  . . .  The government simply outsteps its bounds more all the time, and most of the country seems to be ok with that.  I'm tired of Big Brother, and I'm tired of the IRS.  I don't know why I even voted for one of the two parties at all.  I should have just written in Ron Paul or the Mooninites.

     Nader didn't introduce the patriot act.

     My question is why does America have such a phobia of socialism? Was it the 40 years of anti-communist propaganda? More government programs like health care to care for the welfare of the state doesn't equate to government control. And even if there is some measure of control, the government can at least be accountable on the ballot. Private companies are not.

[Goober5000]

My question is why does America have such a phobia of socialism?

It's very simple.  Government is the least effective, least efficient way to do pretty much anything.

Welfare, health care, unemployment assistance, feeding the poor, etc., are all terrific ideas.  That's why there have been organizations and charities doing those sorts of things for hundreds of years.  But when government decides it wants to control those things itself, it starts introducing bureaucracy, corruption, too much bureaucratic distance between those in need of help and those helping, and so forth -- besides the fact that it always takes a cut of the funds available so it can sustain itself.

If you don't like the way a particular business is doing things, you can simply avoid that business.  You can't avoid a monopoly.

And even if there is some measure of control, the government can at least be accountable on the ballot. Private companies are not.

The problem is that voting privileges are now pretty much universal.  There are so many morons out there (in both major parties) that all the government has to do is convince enough of them that it's doing the right thing, and they'll outnumber the voters who actually think.

[General Battuta]

The Culture does it best, I tell you.

[Rick James]

My question is why does America have such a phobia of socialism?

It's very simple.  Government is the least effective, least efficient way to do pretty much anything.

Welfare, health care, unemployment assistance, feeding the poor, etc., are all terrific ideas.  That's why there have been organizations and charities doing those sorts of things for hundreds of years.  But when government decides it wants to control those things itself, it starts introducing bureaucracy, corruption, too much bureaucratic distance between those in need of help and those helping, and so forth -- besides the fact that it always takes a cut of the funds available so it can sustain itself.

The United States government is, in my opinion, flawed in its basic structure and is in dire need of reform. We here in Canada have socialized a lot of things...and we have far less corruption than your supposition would suggest. We need not worry, in general, about things like social security.

Your country needs to stop thinking in terms of "Can it work?" You need to approach issues like poverty with the question "Can it work if we try things differently?" The problem is, being as how your political organization is utterly ****ed and mired in typical bureaucratic vagaries, that doesn't happen.

You guys should really adopt a Parliamentary government.

[Mongoose]

You guys should really adopt a Parliamentary government.

Ewwno.

And what Goober said pretty much sums it up.  One of the driving forces behind most of this country's history has been the idea of "do-it-yourself," that anyone is capable of standing on their own two feet and making a life for themselves.  Not to be exceedingly cliche, but it's that sentiment that led a lot of people to jump on boats and sail over here in the first place, and it's that same sentiment that drove people to pack up their families and possessions on a covered wagon and travel a thousand miles into the middle of nowhere to start a new life.  That idea pervades much of American culture to its core.  Many of us, myself somewhat included, look on the idea of socialism as an unnecessary and unwanted intrusion into our ability to spend our own hard-earned money on the services that we personally want, as well as a system that can easily promote people mooching off the hard work of others without giving back anything in return (see: welfare state).  While there are undeniably those who just can't make ends meet through no fault of their own, we feel that that same do-it-yourself spirit can drive the more fortunate to step in and lend a hand far more effectively than any overarching bureaucracy ever could.  I'd put much more faith in the ability of a local church charity to help me out if I ever found myself out on the street than I would an overarching bureaucratic structure centered hundreds of miles away and subject to each and every political whim of those in power.

[Shade]

Coming from one of those evil, corrupt societies where the government handles things like healthcare and the unemployed recieve benefits, I find it amusing fact that we have a massive state budget surplus (and have had every year for... well for as long as I can remember actually).

I also find it amusing that our supposedly more corruption-prone country is consistently ranked as one of the least-corrupt countries in the world, and often alongside other countries with a similar form of government to our own.

Finally, I find it amusing that despite the evil unemployment benifits encouraging people to be lazy and never put in an honest day's work, we have effectively zero unemployment. Everyone's earning their keep.

Note: This post is not a dig at the US. In fact, I doubt it could work as well in a country that big. It is a dig at people who insist socialism is evil and can't work. It isn't and it can, and it is not hard to find examples of it if you care to look.

[Rick James]

Many of us, myself somewhat included, look on the idea of socialism as an unnecessary and unwanted intrusion into our ability to spend our own hard-earned money on the services that we personally want, as well as a system that can easily promote people mooching off the hard work of others without giving back anything in return (see: welfare state).  While there are undeniably those who just can't make ends meet through no fault of their own, we feel that that same do-it-yourself spirit can drive the more fortunate to step in and lend a hand far more effectively than any overarching bureaucracy ever could.  I'd put much more faith in the ability of a local church charity to help me out if I ever found myself out on the street than I would an overarching bureaucratic structure centered hundreds of miles away and subject to each and every political whim of those in power.

I still cannot understand the refusal of the average American to ask their government for help. Other people in other countries are not afraid to ask their government for help; for them it's not a matter of pride or lack of faith in the bureaucracy. As a Canadian I place a fair measure of trust in my government, because I can depend on it if I ever unexpectedly go broke or get my spine wrapped around a traffic light in a car accident.

The virtue you preach won't do any good to the impoverished, the sick, or the dying who have nobody they know to help them, or to people who are supporting such individuals but just barely getting by. Nor does it do good to people who can't find help because of bias against their ethnic background or religion. A church charity in your community would be willing to help you, but what about everybody else? Would that church or another community organization be willing to help a complete stranger? Would the average American be willing to help a complete stranger whom he or she had never met before? Probably not.

Standing your own two feet and using what you have to help others who cannot help themselves is all well and good, but that principle was founded in America at a time when it was mutually beneficial for government, business, and the workers to do so, because America was in a state of growth.

That altruism died out a looooooooong time ago. If the average American with the same do-it-yourself spirit actually cared, then why are fifty million of your people without medical coverage?

[Kosh]

It's very simple.  Government is the least effective, least efficient way to do pretty much anything.

Nevermind that the American healthcare system is the least efficient and most expensive in the developed world, and yet all of those other countries have government run healthcare and the US doesn't. Hmmm, imagine that. We spend far more as a percentage of our GDP than anywhere else, and yet the results are often disappointing.

Many of us, myself somewhat included, look on the idea of socialism as an unnecessary and unwanted intrusion into our ability to spend our own hard-earned money on the services that we personally want, as well as a system that can easily promote people mooching off the hard work of others without giving back anything in return (see: welfare state).

When you get into a freak accident and lose your house to pay your hospital bills, I bet you'd be wanting some of that evil socialism.

[Akalabeth Angel]

     I dunno about corruption and bureaucracy, but from what I've heard from Americans coming to Canada, the Canadian government is a lot more laid back. One guy in my class was applying for, I dunno what, taxes, or medical benefits, something like that and was stressing out about what forms he had to fill, and getting things in on time, and so on and so forth. And the official on the phone was like "don't worry, just submit this and if it's a little late, it's okay, they'll refund you retroactively" sorta thing. I don't know, I guess in the US if you don't fill out all your forms and submit them on time and yadda yadda you're pooched or something.

     Btw,  on the topic of health care. I pay 40 bucks CDN a month for coverage. That's it. I've gone to the doctors a few times for some minor things, didn't have to pay anything for the visits themselves. Had to pick up some medicine one time, it was about 30-40 bucks. When I was a student and didn't have any income, I didn't have to pay anything for health care. It was all subsidized by the government.