[Kosh]

More rewards for failure


Here is what is amazing, GM has been saying they can work on new fuel efficient cars, but in reality the government had a program in the 90's that would have them do exactly that ( this, except with the help of federal research labs. The automakers didn't want to do it, so they dragged their feet until Bush got into office, then told him to cancel it (which he immediately did), and then threw away everything they had worked on. Fast forward a few years now that oil prices have gone up and gas guzzling vehicle sales have plummeted, and now they are asking the government to bail them out, even though they had already wasted 8 years and millions of taxpayer dollars.

EDIT: Here is an excerpt from wikipedia about the original research program:

The Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles was a cooperative research program between the U.S. government and major auto corporations, aimed at bringing extremely fuel-efficient (up to 80 mpg) vehicles to market by 2003. The partnership, formed in 1993, involved 8 federal agencies [1], the national laboratories, universities, and the United States Council for Automotive Research (USCAR), which comprises DaimlerChrysler, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation. On track to achieving its objectives, the program was cancelled by the Bush Administration in 2001 at the request of the automakers, with some of its aspects shifted to the much more distant FreedomCAR program.

We could have owned the japanese with this......

[Nuclear1]

Bail them out now, fire the management later. Get new folks that'll focus on fuel effeciency and hope for the best afterwards.

[BloodEagle]

I don't think that the U.S. Government can legally fire the managers of a company.

[redsniper]

Depends on how you define legal...

[Black Wolf]

Depends on what kind of strings they attached to the money. But realistically, you've gotta hope the shareholders take a chunk out of the boards of these companies after massive screwups like they've demonstrated for the past, well, decade or so.

[Kosh]

I wouldn't count on too many strings being attached. Besides, these guys are going to say just about anything to get the money.

[iamzack]

The frakkin' Repubs rant and rave about the evils of socialism and then refuse to allow capitalism to work properly.

If US automakers can't run their goddamn business, then Americans are going to go elsewhere for their automobile purchases.

The bailout is to prevent the job losses that would come out of all these failed big businesses.

Unfortunately, we are now basically so worried about massive unemployment that we are paying people to work useless jobs in failing businesses with tax money.

*Hopefully* Obama's FDR-esque policies will put an end to the bailouts.

(Of course you know everyone will be racing to get their free money before Bush is out of office...)

[IceFire]

Trouble is right now the economy is so fragile the whole world over that if one of the big automakers goes down...and I mean goes down hard...then the rest are going to be hurting for years to come such will be the economic impact.  Things are starting to get really bad and the ripples are heading outwards at a tremendous pace.

[NGTM-1R]

Maybe it's just me, but the bailout seems to be not happening, and the papers are saying it's getting fainter still.

[Kosh]

Maybe it's just me, but the bailout seems to be not happening, and the papers are saying it's getting fainter still.

What do you mean?

[Stormkeeper]

Depends on how you define legal...

Depends on what you mean by 'firing' too.

[Polpolion]

Letting these companies fail right now would seriously cripple if not America's, then Michigan's economy (if Michigan's economy can be more crippled than it already is). As none of you are evidently aware, failure of GM pretty much ensures that Michigan won't be recovering anytime soon. (By that, I mean until Oil runs out and the rest of the world is in such bad shape that Michigan would seem relatively average)

I don't know enough about economics to know if the correct thing to do is the bailout itself, but I do know that we can't let at least GM fail just quite yet.

Of course, it's not like anyone ever cared about Michigan anyway, so I don't expect any of you to care.

[MP-Ryan]

Trouble is right now the economy is so fragile the whole world over that if one of the big automakers goes down...and I mean goes down hard...then the rest are going to be hurting for years to come such will be the economic impact.  Things are starting to get really bad and the ripples are heading outwards at a tremendous pace.

Let it crumble.

The global financial system is in such a shambles that governments are going to feel like the proverbial little Dutch boy trying to plug the dykes with their fingers until they run out of digits... and then the collapse isn't going to be controlled, it's just going to happen.

Capitalism only works if businesses are forced to deal with the consequences of their actions.  Right now we appear to be living in a fairy tale where it doesn't matter how badly you screw up, Big Brother is going to come along and make it all better for you.  There are ZERO consequences for screwing up your business right now, as should be more than evident from the large bonuses the corporate higher ups at places like Freddie and Frannie got despite running their respective institutions into bankruptcy.

Again... let the system crumble.  It's time for a "readjustment."

[Roanoke]

Letting these companies fail right now would seriously cripple if not America's, then Michigan's economy (if Michigan's economy can be more crippled than it already is). As none of you are evidently aware, failure of GM pretty much ensures that Michigan won't be recovering anytime soon. (By that, I mean until Oil runs out and the rest of the world is in such bad shape that Michigan would seem relatively average)

I don't know enough about economics to know if the correct thing to do is the bailout itself, but I do know that we can't let at least GM fail just quite yet.

Of course, it's not like anyone ever cared about Michigan anyway, so I don't expect any of you to care.

It's not just a domestic issue. GM and Ford have a huge presence world-wide. How are Chrysler doing nowadays, btw ?

[Mars]

Supposedly Ford is doing comparatively well

[iamzack]

The global financial system is in such a shambles that governments are going to feel like the proverbial little Dutch boy trying to plug the dykes with their fingers until they run out of digits... and then the collapse isn't going to be controlled, it's just going to happen.

Capitalism only works if businesses are forced to deal with the consequences of their actions.  Right now we appear to be living in a fairy tale where it doesn't matter how badly you screw up, Big Brother is going to come along and make it all better for you.  There are ZERO consequences for screwing up your business right now, as should be more than evident from the large bonuses the corporate higher ups at places like Freddie and Frannie got despite running their respective institutions into bankruptcy.

Again... let the system crumble.  It's time for a "readjustment."

Exactly. And, on top of it all, the government is spending hundreds of billions in money it DOES NOT HAVE. We're already near to $10 trillion in debt, and spending hundreds of billions on a number of futile wars on inanimate objects/concepts/etc. (drugs, terror, poverty, etc.).

For some reason, the majority of our elected officials don't understand basic math. Or the concept of a limited amount of money.

The answer is not to just give cash to businesses and people when they're in trouble.

The market economy is cyclical. We have booms and busts. It happens. But the longer we try to prop up failing businesses just because they're huge, the bigger the fall is going to be when everything collapses at once.

The government's imaginary money has to come from somewhere, you know. All credit has to be paid eventually, and if it can't be, you end up with the domino effect that created the ****ing Great Depression in the thirties.

[Roanoke]

The government's imaginary money has to come from somewhere, you know. All credit has to be paid eventually, and if it can't be, you end up with the domino effect that created the ****ing Great Depression in the thirties.

That would be Japan, China and the OPEC countries.

[iamzack]

And they're going to be ****ed if they need that money in the future, because we don't have the money to pay them back.


EDIT:



So, you know, the $3,200,000,000,000 already spent is just 37.6% of what the government has appropriated.

Ain't that just super?


March 11: The Federal Reserve announces a rescue package to provide up to $200 billion in loans to banks and investment houses and let them put up risky mortgage-backed securities as collateral.

March 16: The Fed provides a $29 billion loan to JPMorgan Chase & Co. as part of its purchase of investment bank Bear Stearns.

July 30: President Bush signs a housing bill including $300 billion in new loan authority for the government to back cheaper mortgages for troubled homeowners.

Sept. 7: The Treasury takes over mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, putting them into a conservatorship and pledging up to $200 billion to back their assets.

Sept. 16: The Fed injects $85 billion into the failing American International Group, one of the world's largest insurance companies.

Sept. 16: The Fed pumps $70 billion more into the nation's financial system to help ease credit stresses.

Sept. 19: The Treasury temporarily guarantees money market funds against losses up to $50 billion.

Oct. 3: President Bush signs the $700 billion economic bailout package. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson says the money will be used to buy distressed mortgage-related securities from banks.

Oct. 6: The Fed increases a short-term loan program, saying it is boosting short-term lending to banks to $150 billion.

Oct. 7: The Fed says it will start buying unsecured short-term debt from companies, and says that up to $1.3 trillion of the debt may qualify for the program.

Oct. 8: The Fed agrees to lend AIG $37.8 billion more, bringing total to about $123 billion.

Oct. 14: The Treasury says it will use $250 billion of the $700 billion bailout to inject capital into the banks, with $125 billion provided to nine of the largest.

Oct. 14: The FDIC says it will temporarily guarantee up to a total of $1.4 trillion in loans between banks.

Oct. 21: The Fed says it will provide up to $540 billion in financing to provide liquidity for money market mutual funds.

Nov. 10: The Treasury and Fed replace the two loans provided to AIG with a $150 billion aid package that includes an infusion of $40 billion from the government's bailout fund.

Nov. 12: Paulson says the government will not buy distressed mortgage-related assets, but instead will concentrate on injecting capital into banks.

Nov. 17: Treasury says it has provided $33.6 billion in capital to another 21 banks. So far, the government has invested $158.6 billion in 30 banks.

Nov. 23: The Treasury says it will invest $20 billion in Citigroup Inc., on top of $25 billion provided Oct. 14. The Treasury, Fed and FDIC also pledge to backstop large losses Citigroup might absorb on $306 billion in real estate-related assets.

Nov. 25: The Fed says it will purchase up to $600 billion more in mortgage-related assets and will lend up to $200 billion to the holders of securities backed by various types of consumer loans.


Okay, this post is too long now.

link

[Nuke]

*twiddles thumbs and waits for government to bail out unemployed psycho freespace modders*

[iamzack]

*twiddles thumbs and waits for government to bail out unemployed psycho freespace modders*

Maybe if you paid people who do work here and produced something that was an economic staple.
See, 'cause, us 'Murikins -need- our trucks 'n SUVs 'n ****. We -need- 'em. Despite the fact that most of us travel more than 15 miles from home less than once per month.