[Dilmah G]

Honestly, governments aren't ever really going to "care" responding to public outcry is something that not every government does, I think it counts for something. Also, why would Isreal target schools and Mosques for fun? It's not like it would help their image.

Amen to that, if they don't shoot back their image drops and so does their reputation, thus if the IDF don't respond to a rocket attack because they know the terrorists would have fled, Hamas would just get bolder in their attacks

[IPAndrews]

A question about the radical Islamist mentality. If I'm a Hamas fighter and I put civilians in the line of fire, and they get killed, have I done them a favour by turning them into martyrs?

[Dilmah G]

A question about the radical Islamist mentality. If I'm a Hamas fighter and I put civilians in the line of fire, and they get killed, have I done them a favour by turning them into martyrs?

Well they would  omit the part about putting them against their will into the line of fire

[Wanderer]

Seems like IDF is using Hamas tactics as well... Apparently both sides of the conflict use non-combatant Palestinians as human shields.

EDIT.... Also... seems that news & photos coming from journalists (which now are allowed to Gaza if embedded to IDF unit) are going through IDF censorship... IDF approach does not exactly instill trust in them as it seems to translate that journalists are shown what IDF wants them to see and any excess material is removed by censors.

Though i agree that IDF had to react to the rocket strikes this stuff just seems so odd that i can't help to wonder WTF is going on...

[TrashMan]

Latest UN report sez approx 50% of the causalities in Gaza are women and children.

And, UN claims with 100% certanty that the UN school bombed by Israel had no terrorists or rockets inside. They demand a investigation and punishment for those responsible...

[TrashMan]

Trash, I seem to remember you defending the Serbian conflict as merely something that needed doing. I think that Isreal is wrong to have attacked, but I'm confused at the apparent switch of opinion.

I what?

[Uchuujinsan]

Further news, translated by me (yeah my translations suck :> )

After attack on humanitarian aid convoy

UN stops humanitarian aid to Gaza.


The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) has stopped its activities in the gaza strip, reacting to an attack on one of its convoys by the Israelis army during the daily cease fire.
UNRWA spokesperson Adnan Abu Hasna confirmed that during the attack, two employees were killed: The driver of a truck was dead immediately, another employee died due to injuries later.
They were contractors (?) hired by the UNRWA.

The convoy was - according to the UNRWA - clearly marked with UN flags, the drivers wore UN wests.
The Israeli military was informed about the transport said Hasna.
He didn't give any comments if and when the humanitarian aid will be resumed. The reasons that lead to the attack are still unknown.


Cease fire not kept

The Israeli army resumed its attack before noon. The air force bombarded at least 20 targets in Gaza. According to the Israeli newspaper "ha'aretz" 4 palastines were killed, including 3 fighters of the organisation "islamic jihad".
ARD-correspondent Richard Schneider reported, that todays cease fire was no kept. Between 1 pm and 4 pm local time shots could be heard in the gaza strip. According to the israeli army missiles were fired at Israel from Gaza. At least four missiles impacted, the cities Aschkelon and Sderot were hit.

The international comitee of the red cross (IKRK (?) ) criticized Israel unusually harsh for the hindering of emergency medical services in the gaza strip.
After an attack on Gaza/Seitun the israeli army had refused palastine medics and IKRK-members access to injured for days.
Four starving children and a dead mother and at least eleven additional victims were found in a building at the end.
"They were to weak to stand alone" reported the IKRK.

Pierre Wettach, the responsible of the comitee for Israel and palestine areas reported:
"The isreali military must have know of the situation, but didn't help the wounded. They also didn't allow us or the palestine red crescent to help the injured."
This would be inacceptable and a violation of the public international duty to help wounded and transport them from the combat zone to safety.

Phosphor bombs in use?

The british newspaper "The Times" reported that the israeli army had used phospor bombs during fights in the gaza strip. On photos taken last week at the border to the gaza strip the bombs of US-production could clearly be recognized by the marking M825A1 reported the paper.
In addition there were reports about civil victims with burns (?).

A spokeswoman of the israeli army declined reports over the use of phosphor bombs. The M825A1 shells were not filled and were only used as target marker, as she said according to the "Times" report. "We don't use weapons that are banned due to international laws" quoted the paper her in addition.
Phosphor bombs aren't eplicitly banned, however, their use is according to the weapons convention of 1980 prohibited against civilians and in rural areas.

"(?)" notes were I were a little unsure about the translation, I also had problems translating a lot of the indirect speach.
Source: http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/gaza560.html

I really wonder why the Israelis are trying so hard to keep foreign journalists out and under control...

P.S.: If you want to, I can translate additional articles about that matter in the future.
P.P.S.: Omg, so many typos and mistakes the Spellcheck didn't catch... -.-

[Grizzly]

While the BBC has had Palestinian producers reporting from Gaza, Israel only allowed Western TV crews to enter on Wednesday, embedded with its army.

which is, as the dutch found out, not a very good way to perform journalism. Embedded Journalism tends to turn into one-sided news.

[Janos]

...Stored in the back room of a gas station.

A mosque surely.

Isn't it rather ... against the ruels to store any form of weaponry in a Mosque?

something exploding does not mean weapons

for example, it could mean a garage or a kitchen

[PJP]

Its sad, I read an article witch said an extremely large percentage of Palestinian casualties are children.

[Janos]

Its sad, I read an article witch said an extremely large percentage of Palestinian casualties are children.

Weeeeell about 44% of Gazans are under 18% so if you just not quite randomly but without giving a **** about collaterals then you kill a lot of children

if israel really was intent on slaughtering everyone the casualties would more closely follow the demographics of gaza but honestly, the casualties tell that they don't really give a **** if innocent people die

[ssmit132]

44% of Gazans are under 18%

You need to chop off a % sign.

[TrashMan]

I laughed at that.


Hm... 40% is the correct number according to the news.

[carbine7]

I say just let 'em fight. It isn't going to end any other way. But using phosphors bombs, thats extreme and wrong. Not like they care, though. Sad what the world has come to, isn't it? Genocide over petty issues.

[NGTM-1R]

Still... given that at least in the clips shown above the terrorists (yes.. i do call Hamas personnel as terrorists) fled very rapidly after firing the weapons it seems rather pointless to toss artillery shells at the firing location (like the UN school case). As the IDF has had to know - or then they really lack on the intelligence department - that a) terrorists have already fled, b) target area is UN school, c) non-combatants are sheltering there shelling the area seems to me to have been a stupid choice to begin with.

I have to challenge assertion A. It's well within the capablities of the IDF, and most modern militaries, to put fire on an enemy artillery posistion within five minutes of its actually firing. Counterbattery radar can generally determine an inbound rocket or round's point of origin before it actually lands, and a couple of minutes later your own guns are firing on that point. There is very good reason Hamas has learned to flee the scene; within the next five minutes it could be ground zero for an artillery barrage. At least some of the time in that situation you're not going to make it out. If you do escape, you probably had to abandon your weapon and it was destroyed by the return fire.

Perhaps more importantly, the retaliatory fire serves the purpose of ensuring these posistions are never going to fire more than a couple of times, which reduces them to irrevelancy. Weapons of the sort being employed by Hamas have to be used in large barrages to be effective; Israel is ensuring that they never will be.

So no, not pointless. Harsh, certainly, but unfortunately quite logical.

[Nuclear1]

Unfortunately, if we do just let the two sides slug it out, its going to end badly and neither Hamas nor Israel are going to be the ones who pay the price. Israeli civilians hit by rocket attacks and, more apparently, Palestinians caught in the crossfire are going to be the real victims. As far as I've heard from CNN, BBC, Israeli media, and al-Jazeera, the IDF has been going to extreme lengths to keep civilians out of the conflict, but I'm afraid their efforts are for nothing.

The Israelis are screwed no matter what they do here. They pull back now, Hamas gets a treatment similar to Hezbollah at the end of the Lebanon conflict, seen by Palestinians as their great defenders and saviors, and, thanks to the Arab media (specifically al-Jazeera, "martyrs" my ass), the rest of the Arab world is going to do the same.

If Israel keeps going, the Palestinian body count will keep piling up. Civilians will be shamelessly used by Hamas as cover for their counterattacks, and more will be caught in the crossfire.

Regardless, Hamas as a military element needs to go. The Palestinians really do have a chance for peace with Abbas, but the division between Fatah and Hamas is simply ruining any hope for that.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I'd really like to see how far they take things this time.

[Dilmah G]

They'll probably get far and have some kind of misunderstanding resulting in both sides in a stalemate, I highly doubt they're going to reach any kind of agreement until the next World War in which they'll have to take sides and annihilate each other

[Androgeos Exeunt]

That'll be World War III...

[Mars]

That'll be World War III...

Are you sure?