Author Topic: Obama orders closure of Gitmo  (Read 11247 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Exactly. The problem with Gitmo was that it wasn't a POW camp. Had it been one it wouldn't have been the complete disgrace that it was to America. Instead Bush's government invented a whole new class of people that weren't military and weren't civilian in order to avoid the rules surrounding the treatment of either.

Don't ever try to pass off Gitmo as a POW camp. It only proves that you weren't paying attention.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Instead Bush's government invented a whole new class of people that weren't military and weren't civilian in order to avoid the rules surrounding the treatment of either.

They didn't really invent them so much as attempt to codify them in a way favorable to the adminstration. The existing rules for such people favor simply shooting them out of hand. This is not a desireable outcome from anyone's point of view. However, such rules also implicitly assume they are spies, which is clearly not the case.
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Offline DeepSpace9er

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Too much cult of personality. My natural skepticism kicks in and big red flags raise when there are so many people 'enchanted' by somebody.. before he had even done anything or was elected or inaugurated.

What really raises red flags is when he puts himself in the rafters with lincoln, or FDR, or JFK, or superman.

Too much cult of personality...

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Too much cult of personality. My natural skepticism kicks in and big red flags raise when there are so many people 'enchanted' by somebody.. before he had even done anything or was elected or inaugurated.

What really raises red flags is when he puts himself in the rafters with lincoln, or FDR, or JFK, or superman.

Too much cult of personality...

Well, it's not like you can compare him to Hitler and somehow envisage Obama is going to **** the world up (even more) by using his charisma, power, and mind to wage some kind of impossible war against the rest of the world. IMO his proving ground (or finest hour if you will) will his handling of the economy

  
Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
... horrible stuff ...

This is horrible.

Gitmo isn't politically correct, but it sure as hell ain't horrible.
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Offline S-99

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Gitmo wasn't a POW camp. It was a prison for 'enemy combatants.' Since we aren't fighting a war against a nation, people we capture aren't technically POWs, allowing the US to get around that pesky Geneva Convention and do all the horrible stuff it wants. :blah:
Hmmm, yeah you're right. My country totally gets around the geneva convention just as much as saddam did.
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Offline Shade

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Quote
Hmmm, yeah you're right. My country totally gets around the geneva convention just as much as saddam did.
So basically, you're of the opinion that Saddam pretty ok in the end? Then why invade him in the first place? In case you didn't know, you never come off well when you compare yourself to the bad guy and say "He did it too", because what you just did is show everyone just how bad you really are yourself. Oh, and when are you going to hang Bush for what he did? That's what they did to Saddam, after all.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 02:05:10 pm by Shade »
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
... horrible stuff ...

This is horrible.

Gitmo isn't politically correct, but it sure as hell ain't horrible.


Tell you what. Let's waterboard you for 7 years and see if you still have the same opinion. :p
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
... horrible stuff ...

This is horrible.

Gitmo isn't politically correct, but it sure as hell ain't horrible.


Tell you what. Let's waterboard you for 7 years and see if you still have the same opinion. :p

Seriously.

The damage inherent in what they did in Gitmo is certainly horrible.

A number of citizens in the US volunteered to be waterboarded as part of an experiment. Most of them reported afterward that they would prefer to die than to go through that again.

 
Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, everyone in the US Special Forces was waterboarded, as part of survival training. Hell, the US even took the methods used in Gitmo from USSF boot camp.

Also- where did you read that the Gitmo inmates were waterboarded for 7 years?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, everyone in the US Special Forces was waterboarded, as part of survival training. Hell, the US even took the methods used in Gitmo from USSF boot camp.

Also- where did you read that the Gitmo inmates were waterboarded for 7 years?


Do you know what the washout rate in Special Forces training is?

As a matter of fact, waterboard training for Special Forces was (at one point) discontinued because it was so effective it hurt morale.

(Plus, they've already been self-selected for mental toughness, so those are already the people most likely to endure it.)

A strong article on the subject, including the author's post-traumatic reactions to a relatively mild experience of waterboarding.

Being waterboarded once is enough. Victims suffer long-term depression, panic attacks, and PTSD, which are among the most horrendous conditions that can be visited upon a human being. Some waterboarding victims panic and gasp for breath every time it so much as rains -- along with tachycardia and all the physical responses of a body preparing itself for death.

These are not experiences that most people can survive intact. What's more, we as a nation shouldn't have to stoop that low. We're better than terrorists.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 10:44:21 am by General Battuta »

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, everyone in the US Special Forces was waterboarded, as part of survival training. Hell, the US even took the methods used in Gitmo from USSF boot camp.

Also- where did you read that the Gitmo inmates were waterboarded for 7 years?


Do you know what the washout rate in Special Forces training is?

As a matter of fact, waterboard training for Special Forces was (at one point) discontinued because it was so effective it hurt morale.

(Plus, they've already been self-selected for mental toughness, so those are already the people most likely to endure it.)

Being waterboarded once is enough. Victims suffer long-term depression, panic attacks, and PTSD, which are among the most horrendous conditions that can be visited upon a human being. Some waterboarding victims panic and gasp for breath every time it so much as rains -- along with tachycardia and all the physical responses of a body preparing itself for death.

These are not experiences that most people can survive intact. What's more, we as a nation shouldn't have to stoop that low. We're better than terrorists.

Death suddenly seems like a far more attractive prospect to capture. I'd rather go down fighting or fly my plane into a troop position or enemy asset over being drowned with a hood over my head strapped to a board or being forced to stand for in excess of 40 hours or any of that crazy ****.

And seriously, What the hell!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival,_Evasion,_Resistance_and_Escape#1995_U.S._Air_Force_Academy_scandal

Sexual Assault as part of SERE training?

 
Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, everyone in the US Special Forces was waterboarded, as part of survival training. Hell, the US even took the methods used in Gitmo from USSF boot camp.

So? Since when do criminal civilians/POW's deserve to get US SpecOps training?

 

Offline Rian

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
I should point out that Obama has signed a separate order that specifically bans torture and coercive interrogation methods. All US agents are now required to follow the interrogation procedures described in the Army Field Manual. So a lot of this stuff is going away even before Gitmo and the other CIA prisons are shut down.

 
Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo

Quote
Your apathy is so edgy and cool.

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I don't think that way to be 'cool'. I think that way because I honestly don't give a crap.

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
I should point out that Obama has signed a separate order that specifically bans torture and coercive interrogation methods. All US agents are now required to follow the interrogation procedures described in the Army Field Manual. So a lot of this stuff is going away even before Gitmo and the other CIA prisons are shut down.

woot

 

Offline iamzack

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, he also overturned that ****in ban on funding clinics overseas that happen to do abortions. :]
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Well, he also overturned that ****in ban on funding clinics overseas that happen to do abortions. :]

That was pleasing.

 

Offline iamzack

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Hopefully enough of those clinics survived the last seven years...
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Obama orders closure of Gitmo
Obama's biggest political impacts are going to be in funding and political manipulation of science.  Removing the bull**** political barriers on research, enforcement of scientific findings, aid, and medical intervention will go a long way toward making the world as a whole a better place.

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