[Aardwolf]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Discuss.

[Nuclear1]

I bet God is not actively involved with us anymore. Just created, then sit back and facepalmed every century.

[Ghostavo]

Problem of Evil

[iamzack]

If there is no god, then there is no evil.

[Mika]

I usually don't participate in discussions regarding god's existance, but any logical attempt to prove god's existence or behavior is seriously flawed. Pratchett said it best in one of his books where a guy said "It's a safe bet to believe in god since you lose nothing that way" met a group of angry gods after he had died. Turned out that the gods didn't like smartasses like him.

What it comes to my personal beliefs, I simply think we are doing journey back to home all the time and finally arrive on death.

Mika

[Mr. Vega]

Well, you could say that free will inevitably led to the rise of evil; that giving humans freedom of choice limits their ability to be completely good. So basically god isn't able to make us perfect without turning us into glorified automatons. So why call him god?

[jdjtcagle]

The Christian's God's limits are those that he places on himself.  He cannot break them because He is perfect.
He is willing but not always able.  For the most part he's not able because he waits on you.

The lack of good is evil, for instance the lack of God among most Christians can be seen clearly.

[iamzack]

But if you assume there is no god at all, then there really can't be good or evil. There has to be a judge in order for good and evil to be, you know, good and evil. The natural universe has no morality.

The best part of no god, though, is that humans are not special. Without some god creating us in his/her/its own image or for some purpose, we are just another animal on another planet in some dark corner of the universe.

[jdjtcagle]

Very true.  No argument there.

But luckily we have a sense of "morality" no matter how fragile it's existence.

[Herra Tohtori]

Existence of God is a rather moot point in my opinion. If God is anything lesser than the collective overruling consciousness of the universe (or multiverse depending on point of view), then it's just a conscious being residing in the universe, in which case I fail to see any point in believing or not believing in it - either this creature we call "God" exists or not, either way it would still be equal in category (if not in power levels) to us; a sentient being existing inside the universe. Or multiverse. Servitude to such creature is something I am not willing to enter whether or not I would believe in the existence of such being, I kinda dislike cults of personality...

On the other hand, if the Universe really does have a collective consciousness... then everything is a part of it and I doubt that my consciousness ending (death) has much of an effect in the whole, and servitude of a personal deity becomes even more of a moot point, since it would then be better to show one's gratitude to universe by living as good a life as possible, which makes sense even if universe is a "blind god" without a single, overruling consciousness.

Or in a nutshell... which is bigger, universe (by definition "all that exists") or God?

Personally I think it's very unlikely that the universe would have an "overconsciousness", but due to my view of the world I can not deny the possibility of such a thing, after all the functionality of this consciousness would very likely be based on some currently unknown natural phenomenon. But on the other hand I do not think believing in these things changes things in the slightest, no matter how strange theological and teleological assumptions have been made during centuries.

Quoting another famous statement from Epicurus:

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

Or in other words, the existence of my consciousness will continue as long as it will, and afterwards my death will not matter to me.


What comes to the problem of evil in context of the existence of God, well, as you might see that question becomes as moot as the question about God's existence, so I'll just pass on that one for now.

[Hades]

I don't believe in a power from above because of many reasons, this being one of those reasons.

[jdjtcagle]

Existence of God is a rather moot point in my opinion. If God is anything lesser than the collective overruling consciousness of the universe (or multiverse depending on point of view), then it's just a conscious being residing in the universe, in which case I fail to see any point in believing or not believing in it - either this creature we call "God" exists or not, either way it would still be equal in category (if not in power levels) to us; a sentient being existing inside the universe. Or multiverse. Servitude to such creature is something I am not willing to enter whether or not I would believe in the existence of such being, I kinda dislike cults of personality...

On the other hand, if the Universe really does have a collective consciousness... then everything is a part of it and I doubt that my consciousness ending (death) has much of an effect in the whole, and servitude of a personal deity becomes even more of a moot point, since it would then be better to show one's gratitude to universe by living as good a life as possible, which makes sense even if universe is a "blind god" without a single, overruling consciousness.

Or in a nutshell... which is bigger, universe (by definition "all that exists") or God?

Personally I think it's very unlikely that the universe would have an "overconsciousness", but due to my view of the world I can not deny the possibility of such a thing, after all the functionality of this consciousness would very likely be based on some currently unknown natural phenomenon. But on the other hand I do not think believing in these things changes things in the slightest, no matter how strange theological and teleological assumptions have been made during centuries.

Quoting another famous statement from Epicurus:

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

Or in other words, the existence of my consciousness will continue as long as it will, and afterwards my death will not matter to me.


What comes to the problem of evil in context of the existence of God, well, as you might see that question becomes as moot as the question about God's existence, so I'll just pass on that one for now.

interesting...

[jdjtcagle]

I don't believe in a power from above because of many reasons, this being one of those reasons.

Well, I hope the other reasons are more rational  

I don't like that place.  But who has time to look at everything and give a verdict

[Nuke]

you got it all bass akwards, god is the satan

[jdjtcagle]

you got it all bass akwards, god is the satan

Yeah I'm bored too...

[iamzack]

The fun part of god, though, and belief is that it doesn't matter if there is a god or not. Whether god is real or not, the belief in god still inspires people to do the silliest of things.

[jdjtcagle]

The fun part of god, though, and belief is that it doesn't matter if there is a god or not. Whether god is real or not, the belief in god still inspires people to do the silliest of things.

It's made me a very happy person and given me a great life so far.  There is no proof for either side, (as far as I'm concerned) some things are taken by faith.  As long as I'm not a bigot and disrespectful though I don't see the big deal about believing in God.

[TrashMan]

The best part of no god, though, is that humans are not special. Without some god creating us in his/her/its own image or for some purpose, we are just another animal on another planet in some dark corner of the universe.

What makes you think we are any more special than any other potential lifeform in the universe?
If God created us, then he also created Alien Joe from Zeta Reticuli.
Those aliens would be him children too....probably also created in His image (who's to say they are not?)

[Hades]

Well, I hope the other reasons are more rational  

I don't like that place.  But who has time to look at everything and give a verdict

Why yes, there are, but I'd rather not turn this into another religious debate.

[jdjtcagle]

Well, I hope the other reasons are more rational  

I don't like that place.  But who has time to look at everything and give a verdict

Why yes, there are, but I'd rather not turn this into another religious debate.

That's fine they are mundane around here and very pointless.  I'm not that bored.