[Charismatic]

Operative? Igniting a civil war, with a high cost of life, ships, and beer? BLASPHEMY!

[Dilmah G]

Operative? Igniting a civil war, with a high cost of life, ships, and beer? BLASPHEMY!

More blunt way of what I've been saying.

[terran_emperor]

Actually, id have though the war would have made bosch beer more popular

[Lucika]

Operative? Igniting a civil war, with a high cost of life, ships, and beer? BLASPHEMY!

More blunt way of what I've been saying.

I've stated at least 10 times that the ppurpose WASN'T to create a rebellion but to collect those who would've been in one. And the theory turned into reality.
(we can even state that the civil war was good for a training, since the GTVA didn't expect a shivan incursion (note that they're sure of their technological superiority)

[Commander Zane]

"I am merely a fool who created a monster that I am powerless to stop."
Second monologue, sounds a lot like Bosh MADE THE REBELLION HIMSELF.

[Lucika]

"I am merely a fool who created a monster that I am powerless to stop."
Second monologue, sounds a lot like Bosh MADE THE REBELLION HIMSELF.

Can't you see that this is the sentence what undermines the official theory and supports mine? If Bosch is unable to stop the rebellion (thus he is thinking about STOPPING the rebellion) and names his band and all of his own achievement a "monster", then he is probably not happy about the breakout of the WHOLE rebellion. Thus: it wasn't his own idea at all...

[BengalTiger]

Why gather rebels when you don't want a rebellion?

[Commander Zane]

Thus: it wasn't his own idea at all...

I don't make things unless I think about doing it first.

[StarSlayer]

"I am merely a fool who created a monster that I am powerless to stop."
Second monologue, sounds a lot like Bosh MADE THE REBELLION HIMSELF.

Can't you see that this is the sentence what undermines the official theory and supports mine? If Bosch is unable to stop the rebellion (thus he is thinking about STOPPING the rebellion) and names his band and all of his own achievement a "monster", then he is probably not happy about the breakout of the WHOLE rebellion. Thus: it wasn't his own idea at all...

Not really, if his ultimate goal truly was to forge an alliance between the Terrans and the Shivans.  He didn't hate the Vasudans yet he ended up forging a rebellion of xenophobic malcontents.  Thats the monster he didn't wish to create, the byproduct of his ultimate goal.  Instead of being a visionary attempting to secure the future of his race he was viewed as a pariah leading an army of bigots.  

It was clear that the NTF was merely a means to an end as far as Bosch was concerned, one that he regretted certainly but still just a pawn in his scheme.  Therefore feretting out the rebellious elements of the GTVA certainly wasn't his directive.  As far as developing ETAK and establishing relations with the Shivans, the GTA certainly could have done that in a much more simpler and subtle method.  It would have been much easier to make it a secret R&D project funded by a few budgetary rounding errors carried out by SOC then a full scale rebellion.   Aken Bosch had a dream, one not shared by GTVA command, therefore he needed to go off the reservation to carry it out.  He required funding and protection while he developed his translator, therefore he founded the NTF and gathered up all the xenophobes and other dissatisfied elements behind a banner of disenfranchisement.  Throughout his monologues it was always his dream and his project, "we" didn't lead his people into the abyss beyond the nebula he did, and "we" weren't fulfilled when the project bore fruit, he was.

[Lucika]

Enough of you!

For the final time: someting went wrong!!!! It always does in FS!
And, what do you think - remeber the GTI rebellion - that the public roar won't come if they'd try to extract Shivan tech? But using what has already been made? An entirely different thing.

The funny thing is, that I am fighting against shadows. Mostly no serious ideas against my idea, BUT stating "OMG-this-is-absurd-and-surely-inst-like-that-and-why-would-they-create-a-rebellion-anyway?". Try to imagine that the idea is true and you'll find the answers for that!

Thanks for the discussion, Mobius and Snail and any of you who actually had resourceful posts. I decided to stop proving this. You might understand - might TRY to understand - this theory once.

You may continue to discuss, I'd love to hear proven opinions. I decided not to participate anymore.

[Pred the Penguin]

StarSlayer does have some valid points though.

[Charismatic]

Why gather rebels when you don't want a rebellion?

Exactly. Findingout who would be in one was..pointless. Took lives anyways and things never go to plan.

[Scotty]

Reference:  Star Wars tFU.  Granted, just a game, but same principle.

[Mobius]

Lucika, I believe you need to clarify something about your theory.

Theories can be divided in groups: there are theories that merge canon and non-canon stuff(1) and theories that simply propose a new way to interpret canon(2), with no references other than the ones coming straight from FS1, ST and FS2.

Although I bet you believe your theory belongs to group (2), some of its parts are very (1)-ish. Claiming that all "bad guys" were moved in a single place is pure non-canon assumption with no proofs mixed with canon episodes. Your theories about the missed interceptions of the Iceni also have to deal with logic, since it is clear that the GTVA might have seriously feared ETAK and/or the Iceni's firepower.

[terran_emperor]

Personally I say that there is no such thing as a waterproof theory (i should know - my raincoat leaks) every theory has holes in it. And even the most bizarre theory has a chance of being right. For example saying that the moon is made of cheese...I'm sure that somewhere in the universe there is a race whose word for rock is "cheese"... or that the Smallest asteroid in the universe is made of blackcurrent jam and speaks kansai-ban japanese

Me i don't buy into the theory that Bosch was really an uber-deek cover operative. I do believe that something fishy was going on. I mean for all we know Bosch may have had supporters in high-level positions within the GTVA - supporters who believed in his dream of allying with the shivans...For all we know there was some "X-files type" conspiricy going on in the GTVA

Given that we know almost nothing about the shivans and that so many questions were left unanswered, just about any theory we could come up with is correct. We know NOTHING about 's plans for what would be resolved in that-game-which-i-dare-not-mention, other than vague comments from them. So just about any theory we could come up with stands a chance of being correct. Of course some stand more chance than others...

I myself have several theories
1) The shivans serve the same purpose in the universe as Gort from The Day the Earth Stood Still
2) The Shivans are heralds of Galactus of some even more advanced race or alliance who make contact with younger races based on how they deal with the shivans - ie they make contact with races capable of defeating or negotiating with the shivans.
3) The Shivan's Enemy Theory
4) The Shivans Insulted Theory

Out of those 4 theories, i personally find 1) and 3) the most likely.
2) is possible. Of course i have to define what i mean by "Contact" ( i vame up with 2) as i was typing)
4) is not very likely but still within the realms of possibility.

[Lucika]

Lucika, I believe you need to clarify something about your theory.

Theories can be divided in groups: there are theories that merge canon and non-canon stuff(1) and theories that simply propose a new way to interpret canon(2), with no references other than the ones coming straight from FS1, ST and FS2.

Although I bet you believe your theory belongs to group (2), some of its parts are very (1)-ish. Claiming that all "bad guys" were moved in a single place is pure non-canon assumption with no proofs mixed with canon episodes. Your theories about the missed interceptions of the Iceni also have to deal with logic, since it is clear that the GTVA might have seriously feared ETAK and/or the Iceni's firepower.

Soon to post it... not having free time now

[Snail]

Lucika, I believe you need to clarify something about your theory.

Theories can be divided in groups: there are theories that merge canon and non-canon stuff(1) and theories that simply propose a new way to interpret canon(2), with no references other than the ones coming straight from FS1, ST and FS2.

Although I bet you believe your theory belongs to group (2), some of its parts are very (1)-ish. Claiming that all "bad guys" were moved in a single place is pure non-canon assumption with no proofs mixed with canon episodes. Your theories about the missed interceptions of the Iceni also have to deal with logic, since it is clear that the GTVA might have seriously feared ETAK and/or the Iceni's firepower.

You've got to remember that whether a theory is Type 1 or Type 2, they're still not canon.

[Mobius]

You've got to remember that whether a theory is Type 1 or Type 2, they're still not canon.

That is still debatable. A lot of things can be deduced from canon evidences and they're surely far from being non canon. The point is that even the smallest addition, no matter of its significance, would turn a Type 2-like theory into a Type 1-like one.

Derelict and Inferno, for example, are not canon but you can't deny that a Post-Capella GTVA would a) Find a new home for Capellan refugees and b) Reopen the Sol jump node in Delta Serpentis. Derelict and Inferno described those facts and even if they're not canon they still focused the attention of two serious issues of the Post-Capella GTVA.

[General Battuta]

You've got to remember that whether a theory is Type 1 or Type 2, they're still not canon.

That is still debatable. A lot of things can be deduced from canon evidences and they're surely far from being non canon. The point is that even the smallest addition, no matter of its significance, would turn a Type 2-like theory into a Type 1-like one.

Derelict and Inferno, for example, are not canon but you can't deny that a Post-Capella GTVA would a) Find a new home for Capellan refugees and b) Reopen the Sol jump node in Delta Serpentis. Derelict and Inferno described those facts and even if they're not canon they still focused the attention of two serious issues of the Post-Capella GTVA.

Well, yes, you can deny that, because it's not canon, it's just a theory.

[Mobius]

*facepalm*

The whole Tau Sigma issue is not canon because it's fanmade but the Capellan refugees issue is a canon one, easily deduced. It's likely to be one of the major issues of the early Post-Capella period.

Same for the Sol Gate. The GTI Melia is not canon, nor is Inferno, but the fact that the GTVA has the knowledge to reopen the jump node after the Second Shivan Incursion is canon. It's even mentioned by Petrach at the end. Reopening the node would be an important Post-Capella issue, possibly much more important than the Capellan refugees.


I'd like to know if you can deny those facts.