[captain-custard]

First I'd just like to say this whole thing hasn't been easy for any of us. I wish it would have never happened but it did. We can only hope that in the end we did the right thing for the community.


After careful condensation, many discussions, and much debate we have come to the following decisions. First and most important TBP 3.4b will remain final as was always agreed upon. This promise we will not break. There will be no new versions of TBP. It along with the 3.6.9 exes that were included with it are the final version.

That said we will also be following the last decision of the TBP team on what should be done with the project once 3.4 was released. We are therefore handing the future of the project over to the public. TBP has always been about the community, it was a tool set for players and FREDders to have fun with. As agreed to buy the team a new public forum will be setup for this purpose. Keep in mind that there is no longer a TBP team and that all development from here on out is not official TBP content.  Multiplayer development for 3.6.10 and future builds will also continue through public development, meaning if there are people who want to mod TBP to work with newer builds, nobody prevents them from doing it. This has never been a discussion about mods allowed or not. The game has this possibility. You can make good use of it. But there will never be any official update.

As for Vid and myself we will be staying on as moderators and to handle the day to day operations of the forums. Due to the nature of multiplayer these day to day operations will include validating content for TBP. Do not confuse validated content with official content. They are two entirely different things.  The only difference between validated content and regular user made content is that multiplayer will recognize validated content when the code supports it. Not everyone's stuff will become validated content but if the existing rules thread is followed then content from multiple sources both validated and not can be used together. More on this when the forum is up and we have had time to work out the details.

Due to being advised that the merging of forums is a bad idea because it would mix up the events we unfortunately cannot follow this part of the TBP teams wishes. In the near future we will be archiving all private forums. There will no longer be any private TBP forums.

If you wish to use any content from TBP in other projects you will need to obtain permission from the creators of the specific content. We cannot give permission as that content belongs to the creators and as far as we know was only provided to be used in TBP..

So in summary TBP will continue through you the fans.



As for the other project leaders/moderator/whatever out there take note of what has transpired here and learn from it.

thanks fubar for the info and if anyone needs a hand bug testing in multiplayer then ill gladly lend a hand(joystick)

to all the mods , freddders, admin etc of tbp

thanks a lot for all your hard work and all of the fun i and many otheres have had

[IPAndrews]

meaning if there are people who want to mod TBP to work with newer builds, nobody prevents them from doing it.

I have withdrawn permission for my work to be used in any new version, or update of TBP. Especially the 3.6.10 update as you are fully aware. Thus, this would be stealing and anyone who does this is a thief. It is not in your place to override this decision Fubar so don't pretend you can. My work, is my work. What's more I expect you to post this comment under your announcement as it is directly relevant.

[captain-custard]

meaning if there are people who want to mod TBP to work with newer builds, nobody prevents them from doing it.

I have withdrawn permission for my work to be used in any new version, or update of TBP. Especially the 3.6.10 update as you are fully aware. Thus, this would be stealing and anyone who does this is a thief. It is not in your place to override this decision Fubar so don't pretend you can. My work, is my work. What's more I expect you to post this comment under your announcement as it is directly relevant.

i personally understood that if ( i ever get it together to understand how to fred etc) i want to use any material then i would ask which i think was fully covered in this part of the announcement by Fubar
 

If you wish to use any content from TBP in other projects you will need to obtain permission from the creators of the specific content. We cannot give permission as that content belongs to the creators and as far as we know was only provided to be used in TBP..

i find it sad that it has come down to the situation that basically one person is stopping the multiplayer developement side of TBP ( this is not an attempt at flaming) but to use the word thief is very strong , this conversion was given to the public with no restrictions mentioned in any of the 3.4b, final versions... so using someones work comes down to being polite and asking .... if the answer is no then it is up to each individual to accept there moral responsability and weigh this against  " the greater good"  i understand your objections and wish this had never got to where we are today.

if you want to discuss this further then please pm me ...


ps

sorry for re-opening a can of worms

[Flipside]

Seems to me that what the B5 fanbase needs then, is a list of the models that IP made, or was involved in, and what his tasks were on those models, since, if the fans want to continue using the game in multiplayer, those will have to be the first to go.

[IPAndrews]

i personally understood that if ( i ever get it together to understand how to fred etc) i want to use any material then i would ask which i think was fully covered in this part of the announcement by Fubar

Fubar is not the team leader. Neither is Vidmaster. I was the team leader when the game was finalised and the team disbanded last year. He cannot speak on my behalf as a team member. He also cannot speak on my behalf as someone whose work he is inviting others to steal. He cannot speak on behalf of the other team members past whose work he is inviting others to steal. Hard Light Productions need to step in unless they wish to continue their site to continue it's slide into moral bankrupcy.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

You can't steal what was freely given to the community.  But if anyone feels this is stealing they can just deleted TBP from their hard drive and move on.  

[Goober5000]

And as a global FYI, after extensive discussion among the TBP project leadership, the HLP leadership, and the SCP rank-and-file (plus a smattering of discussion elsewhere) it was agreed that IPAndrews has neither the legal, nor the personal, nor the moral authority to demand removal of anything that TBP has released.

[karajorma]

He cannot speak on behalf of the other team members past whose work he is inviting others to steal.

Nor can you.

And that's the whole problem. You've set yourself up as representing the whole of the TBP development team and we have no ones word other than your own that this is true.

[IPAndrews]

Who the hell do you think you are telling me where I can and cannot give permission for my work to be used?   Welcome to morally bankrupt Hard Light Productions. Den of thieves.

[captain-custard]

time out?

[IPAndrews]

And that's the whole problem. You've set yourself up as representing the whole of the TBP development team and we have no ones word other than your own that this is true.

You're the worst thief of the lot. You should know better.

[Flipside]

Hang on, isn't this The Babylon Project, kind of like, based on Babylon 5 ships, which are the intellectual property of Foundation Imaging?

I think the word 'theft' is being thrown around entirely too freely in here.

[Vidmaster]

not to mention Warner Brothers 

[Polpolion]

Unless IPA developed TBP with the explicit and publicly known idea that his work was not to be used in any end-user modifications, I agree with the statement that he has no right to withdraw permission now that TBP is done.

If, either before joining or during development, he publicly stated that his work was not to be used, then in addition to not knowing why the heck he joined the team, it would be perfectly reasonable to not use his work, but in his waiting until TBP was finished, he has forfeited that right.

If he had done it before, then the rest of the TBP team would have the time and ability to find someone to replace him, someone that wouldn't mind having his/her work used by the end-user, but now he's robbed the TBP of a completed project, something I would think is pretty disrespectful in itself, especially when he is the project leader.

[karajorma]

And that's the whole problem. You've set yourself up as representing the whole of the TBP development team and we have no ones word other than your own that this is true.

You're the worst thief of the lot. You should know better.

Oh?

Okay, if you really want to get into this. Since I don't like making assumptions, I'm going to ask a few questions I already think I know the answer to.

1) Exactly who was on the TBP team when the decision to disband was taken? I was under the impression it was just you.
2) Exactly which models are you claiming can't be edited? Just the ones you made 100% yourself or are you including anything you edited? From your earlier posts you definitely seem to be claiming the latter.
3) Who exactly on the TBP team can you prove you represent besides yourself?


OH BTW this is providing a very good example of why any mods or TCs still under development really need to look at this thread very carefully.

[IPAndrews]

Personally I love the skewed logic that the burden of proof is somehow on me to prove that I and my team don't want their work stolen. Fantastic. Oh wait... you don't actually care either way.   None of you have any morals whatsoever and I want you all to know just how little I think of you all right now.

[Flipside]

not to mention Warner Brothers 

Yup Warner Bros have the story, FI used to have the ships, not sure who has them now, I have a suspicion either WB bought the meshes, or Paramount, who did the special effect for series 3 onwards still have them.

[IPAndrews]

Yes we stole from Warner brothers. That makes it okay for you to steal from me? Two wrongs make a right. I love that one. Seriously you guys are so pathetic. If you want to behave like thieves admit you're thieves and deal with it.

[Polpolion]

Yes we stole from Warner brothers. That makes it okay for you to steal from me? Two wrongs make a right. I love that one. Seriously you guys are so pathetic. If you want to behave like thieves admit you're thieves and deal with it.

Why exactly don't you want people using your work again? With everyone always arguing, it just seems like you revoked permission purely out of spite. Assuming that it actually isn't out of spite, why?

[karajorma]

Personally I love the skewed logic that the burden of proof is somehow on me to prove that I and my team don't want their work stolen. Fantastic. Oh wait... you don't actually care either way.   None of you have any morals whatsoever and I want you all to know just how little I think of you all right now.

No the burden is on you to prove that TBP wasn't released as a gift. You are claiming that using TBP assets to make mods of TBP is somehow theft and more importantly you have repeatedly claimed that the old team agree with you. I haven't seen proof of that and I can think of 3 or 4 TBP members (not FUBAR or Vidmaster either) who have claimed quite the opposite. So yeah, the burden is on you.