[Hellstryker]

This is a debate over what's racist and what's not that could go on until the the cows come home... Ever watch the south park christmas special from season 1? thats what spung to mind just now when thinking over this discussion.

I thinks the best thing to:
1)say is that words considered racially offensive are not allowed and any repeated diliberate use of them when it is know that offence will be caused will result in the perpertrator being banned
2)lock this thread. As i said this is a debate that can go on forever

BTW kara i've set a date for HLP london part VI March 20th if thats alright.

Yeah but I'm not arguing over what qualifies as racism, I'm arguing over what constitutes a perma-ban. A one or two day ban would be just fine in my opinion.

Now that I agree with, I use the word nigger/nigga on a daily basis, but I still see the issue with Paki

Fair enough, it's offensive, but it doesn't constitute a perma-ban on a one-off case. And Kara said with repeated use of the word would result in a perma-ban.

Yeah but you're black, so that somehow makes it ok or something. 
Reminds me when one black person I know complained about being called African American because he was from India despite having darker skin.

I figure this.

First time offence results in a warning
Second offence results in a ban of two-days to a week
third offence results in month ban.
Any further offences result in a perma-ban.

Would that satisfy you?

Yes, it would satisfy me, but probably not Kara.

[Inquisitor]

I think the existing forum guidelines should be followed.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,37583.0.html

[NGTM-1R]

Frankly, if I were Karajorma, I would've monkeyed iamzack after 8th or so reply, which is when it became clear she was just trying to start an argument, in which she succeeded.

Yeah. Cause I'm sure that would have been universally agreed with.

It wouldn't? I mean seriously, delibrately baiting the admin in front of the whole forum wouldn't? The first couple pages play out like the time Blackdove decided to test the limits.

Granted, people acted surprised when he ran into the limits too. So maybe you are dealing with the hard of thinking.

[Kosh]

Yank is about as offensive as limey. It's not in the same league as nigger. Stop claiming it is.

Ok, so in the UK Paki is offensive, I'll accept that since you are from the UK. But in that case you have no right to say Yank isn't offensive, you are not from the US. Don't tell us that a slur against our people isn't offensive. Go the one of the former confederate states and start calling people yankees, then you'll see how "inoffensive" it is.

[Hellstryker]

Yank is about as offensive as limey. It's not in the same league as nigger. Stop claiming it is.

Ok, so in the UK Paki is offensive, I'll accept that since you are from the UK. But in that case you have no right to say Yank isn't offensive, you are not from the US. Don't tell us that a slur against our people isn't offensive. Go the one of the former confederate states and start calling people yankees, then you'll see how "inoffensive" it is.

Or better yet, Rednecks, as MB pointed out.

[Inquisitor]

No irony in a thread lamenting a hate crime that people are gleefully justifying their right to use hate speech because it doesn't offend them. No irony at all.

[Hellstryker]

No irony in a thread lamenting a hate crime that people are gleefully justifying their right to use hate speech because it doesn't offend them. No irony at all.

  Nobody here is trying to justify the use of "hate speech", I simply think a perma ban over it is dumb. But here we have Kara trying to claim "Yank" and "Redneck" aren't offensive when he lives in britain. that's irony for you. 

[Polpolion]

No irony in a thread lamenting a hate crime that people are gleefully justifying their right to use hate speech because it doesn't offend them. No irony at all.

  Nobody here is trying to justify the use of "hate speech", I simply think a perma ban over it is dumb. But here we have Kara trying to claim "Yank" and "Redneck" aren't offensive when he lives in britain. that's irony for you. 

Kara wasn't saying they weren't offensive, he was saying that they are not as offensive as the slur for blacks. I wouldn't know because I'm not black, but offhand, I'd agree with Kara on that point.

Regardless of that, it's not okay to use such language because it's demeaning, regardless of where you live.

[StarSlayer]

Yank is about as offensive as limey. It's not in the same league as nigger. Stop claiming it is.

Ok, so in the UK Paki is offensive, I'll accept that since you are from the UK. But in that case you have no right to say Yank isn't offensive, you are not from the US. Don't tell us that a slur against our people isn't offensive. Go the one of the former confederate states and start calling people yankees, then you'll see how "inoffensive" it is.

Thats Yankee.  As in bumper stickers that read "The only good Yankee is one heading north."  He's talking about the British term Yank.  If you've seen at least one World War II movie that isn't US centric you can tell the difference.  The multi racial status of the States means it isn't a ethnic slur in the same sense as Paki is either.  There is no "Southern Ethnic Group" that you are offending by the term Yankee, it's an ideological/historical issue.  Technically the only truly American race are people of the tribes.

[Hellstryker]

No irony in a thread lamenting a hate crime that people are gleefully justifying their right to use hate speech because it doesn't offend them. No irony at all.

  Nobody here is trying to justify the use of "hate speech", I simply think a perma ban over it is dumb. But here we have Kara trying to claim "Yank" and "Redneck" aren't offensive when he lives in britain. that's irony for you. 

Kara wasn't saying they weren't offensive, he was saying that they are not as offensive as the slur for blacks. I wouldn't know because I'm not black, but offhand, I'd agree with Kara on that point.

Regardless of that, it's not okay to use such language because it's demeaning, regardless of where you live.

I'm pretty sure a lot of southerners would take Redneck just as badly as a "African American" (what a stupid term) would take the N word.

[Polpolion]

No irony in a thread lamenting a hate crime that people are gleefully justifying their right to use hate speech because it doesn't offend them. No irony at all.

  Nobody here is trying to justify the use of "hate speech", I simply think a perma ban over it is dumb. But here we have Kara trying to claim "Yank" and "Redneck" aren't offensive when he lives in britain. that's irony for you. 

Kara wasn't saying they weren't offensive, he was saying that they are not as offensive as the slur for blacks. I wouldn't know because I'm not black, but offhand, I'd agree with Kara on that point.

Regardless of that, it's not okay to use such language because it's demeaning, regardless of where you live.

I'm pretty sure of southerners would take Redneck just as badly as a "African American" (what a stupid term) would take the N word.

I'm pretty sure not. What now?

PS (why are you pretty sure?)

EDIT: BTW,

Outside the United States, Yank or Yankee is a slang term, sometimes derogatory, for any U.S. citizen.

I don't have a ready access to WWII films of any kind, but I don't see much on here about what you said, StarSlayer.

[Hellstryker]

I'm pretty sure not. What now?

PS (why are you pretty sure?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R

"a disapproving and insulting term used to refer to uneducated or poorly educated White persons in the U.S. who are of lower socio-economic status, or live in a rural area"

Well, lesse, if you were in such a position, would you take offense to the said slur?

[Polpolion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R

"a disapproving and insulting term used to refer to uneducated or poorly educated White persons in the U.S. who are of lower socio-economic status, or live in a rural area"

Well, lesse, if you were in such a position, would you take offense to the said slur?

The question wasn't whether they would be offended or not - that's obvious. You said that they are just as offended as black people are when called rednecks or the "N word," which hasn't been demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.

[Hellstryker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R

"a disapproving and insulting term used to refer to uneducated or poorly educated White persons in the U.S. who are of lower socio-economic status, or live in a rural area"

Well, lesse, if you were in such a position, would you take offense to the said slur?

The question wasn't whether they would be offended or not - that's obvious. You said that they are just as offended as black people are when called rednecks or the "N word," which hasn't been demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.

Ultimately to solve this stupid debate we'd have to do a poll on blacks and poorer white people living in rural areas. Not going to happen.

[Polpolion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R

"a disapproving and insulting term used to refer to uneducated or poorly educated White persons in the U.S. who are of lower socio-economic status, or live in a rural area"

Well, lesse, if you were in such a position, would you take offense to the said slur?

The question wasn't whether they would be offended or not - that's obvious. You said that they are just as offended as black people are when called rednecks or the "N word," which hasn't been demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.

Ultimately to solve this stupid debate we'd have to do a poll on blacks and poorer white people living in rural areas. Not going to happen.

We can't just use the fact that it's taboo to say the N word and it isn't taboo to say redneck?

[Hellstryker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R

"a disapproving and insulting term used to refer to uneducated or poorly educated White persons in the U.S. who are of lower socio-economic status, or live in a rural area"

Well, lesse, if you were in such a position, would you take offense to the said slur?

The question wasn't whether they would be offended or not - that's obvious. You said that they are just as offended as black people are when called rednecks or the "N word," which hasn't been demonstrated in the Wikipedia article.

Ultimately to solve this stupid debate we'd have to do a poll on blacks and poorer white people living in rural areas. Not going to happen.

We can't just use the fact that it's taboo to say the N word and it isn't taboo to say redneck?

Taboos are a form of censorship, which I despise with the very essence of my being.

Of course, that's is a different subject altogether.

So, no sizzler. I'll just shut up. It's pointless debating if we're not going to come to an agreement.

[Polpolion]

So, no sizzler. I'll just shut up. It's pointless debating if we're not going to come to an agreement.

Well we can't come to an agreement if we're not going to debate.

[Hellstryker]

So, no sizzler. I'll just shut up. It's pointless debating if we're not going to come to an agreement.

Well we can't come to an agreement if we're not going to debate.

And as I stated earlier, it's impossible for us to come an agreement due to the fact that neither of us are black or poorly educated (despite the fact that I am relatively poor and live in a rural area )

[Dilmah G]

And I use the N-word. It shouldn't even be called the N word. Unless of course any one of you say it. It's all about the context really. I mean a Pakistani person referring to another Pakistani person as a "Paki" isn't considered offensive is it? Especially if the two were friends and referring to each other in a friendly manner. If someone calls me a nigger (which is really null and void......but nonetheless, nobody seems to listen at school these days, or be able to tell the difference between a Sri Lankan Kid wearing baggy jeans and 50 Cent), I'll take it depending on the context. As soon as someone tries to say something like "**** you, you stupid punk-ass nigga!" That's when it should become an offensive term. If someone says "Yo sup' Nigga *west-side hand sign*", that isn't an insult. I don't know many Pakistani people so I don't know if they refer to each other by the terms white people use as derogatory in a large movement to rebel against society's norm (don't get me started), but if you see the point I'm making about context, these aren't always racial slurs. If someone here thinks a term used by one of us is a racial slur, then they have a right to stand up and say stop. Well Kara has an issue, so therefore refrain from the word Paki...simple.

So, no sizzler. I'll just shut up. It's pointless debating if we're not going to come to an agreement.

Well we can't come to an agreement if we're not going to debate.

And as I stated earlier, it's impossible for us to come an agreement due to the fact that neither of us are black or poorly educated (despite the fact that I am relatively poor and live in a rural area )

Well I'm Black. Nigga. *Loads 9mm*

[NGTM-1R]

I'm pretty sure not. What now?

The term is considered openly derogatory coast to friggin' coast. It was in Virginia, it is in California. You don't even have to be Southern. Therefore I'm pretty sure you're full of it.

And referring to someone as a Yank or Yankee in, say, Vicksburg, is easily worth calling fighting words. So no, it's not racial, but then, it doesn't have to be now does it? (You think I'm kidding, but Vicksburg doesn't celebrate the Fourth of July because the city fell to the Union on that date.)