[karajorma]

People like the NRA point at those as examples of why we need more guns. The pro-gun control people point at them as examples of why we need less.

So sadly, it's not "Nuff said" at all.

[Hero_Swe]

People like the NRA point at those as examples of why we need more guns. The pro-gun control people point at them as examples of why we need less.

So sadly, it's not "Nuff said" at all.

...Ok, i'm *This* close to lose complete faith in humanity.

[Bobboau]

you are being alarmist, I can kill just as many people with a knife and home made explosives if I wanted to, and I don't need to register for any of them, that doesn't even get into the world of illegally aqured guns in a gun free state.

further, I will point to those situations and ask what if a teacher had a gun with them on those days? what if these gunmen had armed resistance rather than defenseless people who's only option was to run away and wait for the cops to try to  stop them?

[Hero_Swe]

The numbers of dead or injured would increase signifigantly since no one aims like people in hollywood do

[Androgeos Exeunt]

You mean a concussion...

...missile?

Obviously, you've played too much D3.

[Bobboau]

The numbers of dead or injured would increase signifigantly since no one aims like people in hollywood do

first off the numbers do not support your position

second the point is not safety but personal responsibility.

[Hero_Swe]

The numbers of dead or injured would increase signifigantly since no one aims like people in hollywood do

first off the numbers do not support your position

second the point is not safety but personal responsibility.

What numbers? We can only theorise about what a gun in a teacher's hand would have done, We don't exactly have proof that a gun in teachers hands would have done any difference, not that i know atleast.


Humans are apes, they don't have the nerves to handle a gun with responsible hands. We're flawed that way

[castor]

what if a teacher had a gun with them on those days?

Sorry for being OT, but considering the amount of **** teachers need to digest in their jobs I'd rather not give'em guns

[Bobboau]

We can only theorise about future school shootings, We don't exactly have proof that allowing more law abiding citizens to have the ability to defend themselves by useing a gun would cause any more random school shootings.

you see those two subjects are completely unrelated.

the numbers I am referring to are the ones where laws have changed and deth rates have not followed you theorized pattern.

so I take it you are of the opinion that people need to be saved from themselves? that they need to be forced to be made more civilized? I don't get why that is only considered a crime against humanity when you are trying to apply it to people outside your culture, I think it's just as flawed when you do it to your own people.

[Herra Tohtori]

You mean a concussion.

Blunt trauma is injury where skin is not pierced and no extrenal wound or bleeding occurs.

Penetrating trauma is injury where skin is penetrated and a visible external wound happens.

Perforating trauma is when there's both entry wound and exit wound.


Concussion is bruising of the brain resulting from rapid acceleration of the head, and I wasn't really referring to that. In indoors distances, a four-foot staff would likely be a very effective weapon provided you could use it. It has a good reach and if you have some training, most people would not have time to react to you striking at the gun to point some other direction than you, after which you could proceed on to disarm them or to whack them with your stick some more... And as far as lethality goes, a thrust to larynx or abdomen is nothing to look down at. Third and probably least lethal debilitating point is obviously the groin.

Besides that, how many burglars actually carry firearms? And how many are dumb enough not to keep a stakeout for the target house to confirm that no one is at home? Granted, the dumb ones probably are the ones that carry the firearms... but regardless, if you want to defend your home and family, get some decent alarm systems rather than a gun, which a sensible person would keep in a secure locker with ammunition stored in separate place and thus negating it's ultimate usefulness in a home-defense scenario...

Four-feet staff under the bed would be my preferred home defense solution. With a proper alarm and lock system. Moat couldn't hurt either, coupled with electric barbed wire fence and camera surveillance systems. With towered guard positions. And booby traps along the most probable approach routes.

All of which would be more effective defensive solutions than having a handgun.


Regarding school shootings... it boggles the mind why them guys don't end up dogpiled and disarmed in a short timespan. Probably panic mentality and lack of leadership, but still...

And as far as the phenomenon itself goes, nothing new with young men flipping out and going on a killing spree; it's just that with the increased ease of aquiring lethal weapons the consequences are all that much more severe...

[Dilmah G]

I side with Kara about the person as an individual being the issue.

I searched google for "Canadian Gang Violence" to make a point but found this instead

The absent father and gang membership was one of the common threads being shared by gang members. In the gang, each member had the experience of a sense of acceptance, a sense of status.

Divorce rate in the US anyone?

I don't think I'd be wrong in saying American youth are notable contributors to gun related crimes. I don't think I'd be wrong either by saying gang violence was a major cause of gun-related violence.

A gang of male comrades substitutes for the role of the absent father, though very destructively. Acceptance into a gang often requires some form of initiation in which a prospective member has to prove his loyalty to other gang members. Some initiations require that a prospective gang member commit an act of robbery or violence, acts which earn the gang member higher status amongst peers. The South African study indicated that drug and alcohol use was rampant among gang members.

Interesting

[Uchuujinsan]

further, I will point to those situations and ask what if a teacher had a gun with them on those days? what if these gunmen had armed resistance rather than defenseless people who's only option was to run away and wait for the cops to try to  stop them?

The same the happened to two trained policemen in Germany:
They were shot. While they both survived (covered by the rest of the police, they were ganging up on him), they were heavily and life threatening injured.

I also dont see how a fire arm would have helped - if a teacher leaves the classroom to engage the guy, he will most probably endanger only himself - if he stays in the classroom he can stay in close combat range behind the door anyway, and do a surprise attack if he enters (in - very - close combat a handgun is a disadvantage)

[Hellstryker]

I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that America is full of people who would quite happily pull out a gun and start blasting and think about the consequences later.

Excellent job flaunting your ignorance once again Kara. Simply amazing. I think I'm going to go grab an automatic rifle and start shooting my neighbors.

[Snail]

I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that America is full of people who would quite happily pull out a gun and start blasting and think about the consequences later.

Excellent job flaunting your ignorance once again Kara. Simply amazing. I think I'm going to go grab an automatic rifle and start shooting my neighbors.

You might not, but I'm sure someone would.

[Dilmah G]

I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that America is full of people who would quite happily pull out a gun and start blasting and think about the consequences later.

Excellent job flaunting your ignorance once again Kara. Simply amazing. I think I'm going to go grab an automatic rifle and start shooting my neighbors.

I hate to generalise on this issue, but if you were to talk to some of the gangbangers there, they would probably shoot first ask questions later. In fact at youth penitentiaries they have to "Re-Train" them how to think, and change the way they think, which is Shoot-First ask q's l8r. 

I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that America is full of people who would quite happily pull out a gun and start blasting and think about the consequences later.

Excellent job flaunting your ignorance once again Kara. Simply amazing. I think I'm going to go grab an automatic rifle and start shooting my neighbors.

You might not, but I'm sure someone would.

That's what I thought. He wasn't referring to you specifically, but you have to admit there are people everywhere that think like that. Just in America they're all over the media, breeding more of their kind.

[Snail]

Everything's relative - There are just more people willing to do it in America than elsewhere. It might only be 0.01% of the population, but that tiny percentage is still greater than in other countries. That's what Karajorma is getting at.



Not saying I'm agreeing with him. (I don't politics).

[Bobboau]

and guess what, that 0.01% of the population already has a gun, and won't return it just because they are asked nicely to do so.

if we were as violent and murder happy as is being suggested, we would already have burned to the ground long ago.

[Nuke]

i think citizens should have the right to carry nukes

[Bobboau]

really, they are sort of heavy, I don't think many people would be carrying them.

[Nuke]

i would