[captain-custard]

can i have your sisters phone number?

[General Battuta]

So what you're saying is that we need more abortions?

Or more social services and welfare to support single mothers and their children?

Or better public school systems to keep these kids in school?

Or more affirmative action to help them get into college?

And go back and read the earlier posts, too.

Those are treatments to the existing condition, not the causal agent.

The causal agent is a society that, while not outright sanctioning it, has begun turning a blind eye to Single Mothers.  

It was not that long ago that if a girl became pregnant, she was forced to leave whatever school she was attending, moved to a different school specifically for girls in her condition and her family was scandalized.  This often resulted in so called "Shotgun Weddings' where the young man would be forced into marrying the mother of his child.

Somewhere along the line, it became "ok" for a woman to have a child out of wedlock with a man.  Later, a government program was created to help these women, which in turn created a culture where the children were looked upon as a form of income, more kids = more money.  All the while, you have the sexual culture of these areas changing bit by bit so that promiscuity is not looked down upon as it once was.  Say what you will about my "outdated" perspective, but society created the problem, and society has to fix it.

Young boys, especially as they begin to mature into biological adulthood, need a male roll model that is not a gang leader or a thug.  I would love to see a generation full of Bill Cosby and Condoleezza Rice emulators instead of Tupac or Lil' Kim wannabes.  You can extend that beyond race also, Mr. Cosby and Ms. Rice are worthy of emulation no matter your color or nationality.

The solution is education, right?

Tell me you agree with that.

[redsniper]

Well, I agree with that.

[Liberator]

Of course I agree with that, but we have to reinject a sense of honor into the areas where they're culture has degenerated and is allowing detrimental behavior.

And I think we can all agree wild promiscuity is detrimental.

[General Battuta]

Of course I agree with that, but we have to reinject a sense of honor into the areas where they're culture has degenerated and is allowing detrimental behavior.

And I think we can all agree wild promiscuity is detrimental.

No, we can't.

'Sense of honor' is a codeword for 'regulating people's behavior in a way I like.'

And please don't use the phrase 'their culture', since it makes it clear you're being racist.

Now, while I think many cultures in America have problems, they aren't this simplistic and they certainly aren't open to easy evaluation and resolution by one individual.

[Blue Lion]

Why is it wrong for a single woman to have a child?

I always thought it was "People who were unable or unwilling to have a child shouldn't have them"

This includes:

Married parents who can't support children.
Married parents who CAN support children, but are such poor parents they shouldn't (abuse, little time left for children)

The idea is that somehow tossing a guy (or other girl) at this equation will fix it. It won't. People don't automatically become perfect parents if there are two and people aren't automatically bad parents just because there is one.

[Knight Templar]

I believe the solution to this problem is abortions.

yes. kill moar babiez.

[captain-custard]

Of course I agree with that, but we have to reinject a sense of honor into the areas where they're culture has degenerated and is allowing detrimental behavior.

And I think we can all agree wild promiscuity is detrimental.

no give me your phone number so i can find you and help you get a darwin award

ppl like yourself should have a really good look in the mirror before blowing your brains out , i do not know what mistakes your parents made in bringing up such an arrogant and racist idiot but they should be punished........

you in no way understand how the basic biology of living things work , the more stress and the greater the risk of death any living thing is placed under it will reproduce more to try and guarantee the survival of that species be it a plant an insect or trash like you........

i do believe you have really pissed me off !!!!!

hide your head in shame and go do some "real life" instead of judging things obviously you know jack **** about

[redsniper]

What if by 'restore honor' he means making it so going to prison is no longer seen as a badge of honor among certain kinds of people (and no I'm not singling out black people. We don't need to go there)? Or make it so you don't have to be in a gang to be cool? Or try and cut down on drug trade/culture (which I think could be accomplished with legalization, but that's another matter)?

I'm just saying, there's more to what he said than "OMG black people should all start acting like white people guyzzz!!"
Something's rotten. Maybe not because of unwed mothers, but there's definitely something wrong and as long as it's cool to do the things that contribute to crime and delinquency, we're going to have criminals and delinquents.

So yeah... education.

[Blue Lion]

What if by 'restore honor' he means making it so going to prison is no longer seen as a badge of honor among certain kinds of people (and no I'm not singling out black people. We don't need to go there)? Or make it so you don't have to be in a gang to be cool? Or try and cut down on drug trade/culture (which I think could be accomplished with legalization, but that's another matter)?

When has being in a gang not been "cool" or no one dealt drugs? These are not new ideas that just showed up.

[Liberator]

Why is it wrong for a single woman to have a child?

I always thought it was "People who were unable or unwilling to have a child shouldn't have them"

This includes:

Married parents who can't support children.
Married parents who CAN support children, but are such poor parents they shouldn't (abuse, little time left for children)

The idea is that somehow tossing a guy (or other girl) at this equation will fix it. It won't. People don't automatically become perfect parents if there are two and people aren't automatically bad parents just because there is one.

The point is that if you are mature enough to conduct the activities required to make a baby, you should be mature enough to see to the welfare of said progeny and not run like a child.  Whether you like to think so or not, sex is not just a good time.  There are responsibilities that go along with the fun and perpetuate beyond "the moment".

I know you're gonna come back with the whole birth control argument.  I don't care, as an adult, you have certain responsibilities that you can't take a pill and make go away.

Putting it more simply, do not climb into the sack with someone you couldn't see your self married to.


By restoring honor, I mean teaching the young men and women who are fathering these children with no concern after fact to consider what they are doing and consider the consequences of they're actions.  The cycle of poverty/drug abuse/fatherless children in the inner cities that people think of when they look at and inner city cannot be broken until that honor returns.  Without that reasoning, they are little better than animals rutting around in heat.

Also, my comments aren't racist to any degree, you are reading your own racism into them I think.  I simply use the same sample group that Ms. Coulter did, the 85% of the USA's prison population that were born to Single Mothers.

[Col. Fishguts]

Seriously Lib... you come back here after several years of HLP abstinence due to massive butthurt. And now you think starting a thread about the latest ramblings of the insane ***** that Ann Coulter is would be a good idea?!?

[Liberator]

Who said I left butthurt...I just drifted away...it happens...it's the effing internet for cripe's sake...

[Janos]

Of course I agree with that, but we have to reinject a sense of honor into the areas where they're culture has degenerated and is allowing detrimental behavior.

And I think we can all agree wild promiscuity is detrimental.

This is pure bull****.
What "sense of honor"?
What "degeneration of culture"?
What "promiscuity is detrimental"? I don't think so, but if you can prove this then go ahead.

You insert weasel words, subjective morality and some unfounded assertion. Are you trying to go for satire? I can't tell

[castor]

People do what they choose to do, or what they are forced to do. You can't force them to do "better" things without violating their rights (and probably your own values).
So, you need to get them to want to choose those "better" things. That need can be built from grounds up (supported by the surrounding culture), or by experimenting with the "bad" things first (so you'll know what you don't want).

If you want to see a change, put your money in building a society that supports that change, not in building a society that tries to force a change over people which are what they are.

Edit: forgot to comment this..

It was not that long ago that if a girl became pregnant, she was forced to leave whatever school she was attending, moved to a different school specifically for girls in her condition and her family was scandalized.  This often resulted in so called "Shotgun Weddings' where the young man would be forced into marrying the mother of his child.

Somewhere along the line, it became "ok" for a woman to have a child out of wedlock with a man.  Later, a government program was created to help these women, which in turn created a culture where the children were looked upon as a form of income, more kids = more money.  All the while, you have the sexual culture of these areas changing bit by bit so that promiscuity is not looked down upon as it once was.  Say what you will about my "outdated" perspective, but society created the problem, and society has to fix it.

That is just an example of a ****ed up practice that got replaced with something that doesn't work particularly well either. Nothing to long for...

[Nuclear1]

Also, my comments aren't racist to any degree

Well, actually:

I simply use the same sample group that Ms. Coulter did

Simply put, Ann Coulter is one of the last people you need to be quoting or using as a basis for your arguments.  She's a partisan, racist, nationalist, insane ***** who should never have been allowed to write books, because unfortunately people do take her seriously.  It perpetuates her own brand of stupidity and narrow view of everything.
Examples:
--Killing all Middle East leaders and "making them Christian"
--Blaming The Left™ for everything
--Claiming unwed mothers in the inner city (many of whom are black) are the source of the inner city's crime rate (i.e. it's the blacks' fault we have so much crime, it's those black whores' slutting it up)
--Calling for the impeachment of the single most successful president in 50 years because he got a blowjob in office

Need I go on?  Do yourself a favor:  put that book down right now.  Burn it.  And every other book by her.

[Liberator]

Janos,

All morality is subjective.  The prevailing morality is that which the majority of the culture in question adheres to.  In this case, it is generally conceived in the USA that "loose" males and females are of poor character.

This discussion is treading into an area that can't be dealt with on a scientific level.  We're starting to deal with the rights and wrongs of society.  I can't claim moral superiority over most anyone other than murderers, rapists and the like, but then neither can you.  Your outrage over my stances and thoughts are as driven by your own moral code as mine are.  If you deny this, then this discussion loses any possible common ground.

Wonderful suggestion, castor, one I would support.  Except there's more money to be made exploiting the negative aspects of the current culture which leads to apathy on the thoughts of changing the society.

Nuclear1, I thought you were more open minded than that.

[Nuclear1]

Nuclear1, I thought you were more open minded than that.

I know trash when I see it, and when Ann Coulter spews partisan, ultra right wing and nationalist bull**** everytime she opens her mouth or writes a book, that's trash.  She rode the wave of the 1994 election which brought the neocons into power and she has gladly been their willing spokesperson ever since.

Seriously, I don't think I can find a single redeeming quality about that woman.  I'm open-minded, but I absolutely will not tolerate nonsense from people like her.  If I had to make a list of the top ten people who are legitimately holding back America, she would be very high on it.

[NGTM-1R]

Why is it wrong for a single woman to have a child?

I always thought it was "People who were unable or unwilling to have a child shouldn't have them"

This includes:

Married parents who can't support children.
Married parents who CAN support children, but are such poor parents they shouldn't (abuse, little time left for children)

The idea is that somehow tossing a guy (or other girl) at this equation will fix it. It won't. People don't automatically become perfect parents if there are two and people aren't automatically bad parents just because there is one.

Argument needs to step aside, let the man go through.

[Blue Lion]

The point is that if you are mature enough to conduct the activities required to make a baby, you should be mature enough to see to the welfare of said progeny and not run like a child.  Whether you like to think so or not, sex is not just a good time.  There are responsibilities that go along with the fun and perpetuate beyond "the moment".

Anyone who hits puberty can make a baby. Are you saying a 13 or 14 year old (maybe younger) should be capable of fully supporting themselves and the child?

I know you're gonna come back with the whole birth control argument.  I don't care, as an adult, you have certain responsibilities that you can't take a pill and make go away.

I wasn't going to go there at all?

And please forgive me for any nasty stuff I am going to write. It is not to be gross.

Are you saying that I, as an adult, should not be having any sex at all unless it's to have a child? None? Zero?

Putting it more simply, do not climb into the sack with someone you couldn't see your self married to.

Why is this? I have had sex with women I have no intention of marrying. We have no intention of having a child, we used protection. She didn't mind. I didn't mind. Why do YOU mind?