Poll

Do Frigate Class Warships have a place in the GTVA

Yes, Corvettes Drool!:drevil:
22 (50%)
No, Corvettes rool!!:snipe:
22 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Voting closed: March 23, 2002, 03:34:01 am

Author Topic: Fraigate Class Warships  (Read 9429 times)

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Offline Kazashi

  • 26
In relation to the definition of a frigate, apparently the specifications differ between navies. For example, the British navy class a frigate as an escort vessel between a corvette and destroyer in size, while the US navy classes it as an escort vessel between a destroyer an cruiser in size. Although historically it has been defined as the class of ship next in size to the top-of-the-line ships. Given such derivation for that one term, could you give an exact definition of how big a frigate is? Rather, it seems to be classed more by its role.

A Dreadnought (with an o) is a battleship with superior armament to all its predecessors. The original Dreadnoughts with the British navy fielded between 10 and 14 12" guns (as well as a speed of 21 knots) - ships with bigger guns (such as 13.5" guns) were unofficially called super-Dreadnoughts. Again, the definition has probably been changed/refined over time with emphasis placed on role (i.e. being bigger and meaner than the other ship classes) rather than specific number of guns.

That's just some info I have to throw into the discussion, we've already learned that the Freespace definitons don't necessarily tie in with the naval terms of today/yesteryear.
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Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazashi
In relation to the definition of a frigate, apparently the specifications differ between navies. For example, the British navy class a frigate as an escort vessel between a corvette and destroyer in size, while the US navy classes it as an escort vessel between a destroyer an cruiser in size. Although historically it has been defined as the class of ship next in size to the top-of-the-line ships. Given such derivation for that one term, could you give an exact definition of how big a frigate is? Rather, it seems to be classed more by its role.
The US Navy's frigates (such as the Perry class) are smaller than it's destroyers and cruisers.  The term Frigate now refers to (in most navies) a ship smaller than both destroyers and cruisers, and often one that is optimised for ASM work.
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Offline Kazashi

  • 26
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
The US Navy's frigates (such as the Perry class) are smaller than it's destroyers and cruisers.  The term Frigate now refers to (in most navies) a ship smaller than both destroyers and cruisers, and often one that is optimised for ASM work.


I read your previous post, don't worry :)

Frigates over here in the RAN are generally bigger than our destroyers (if we still have any left in service) and put to work as guided missile frigates. While they do have anti-submarine capabilities this isn't emphasised as their primary role (someone please feel free to correct this, I severed my ties and most of my interest with the defence forces a few years back). Still, I guess you can have more than one designation for a frigate - one class would be designed for AS warfare (not that you need to attack our subs, they do a good enough job of falling to bits as it is), another carrying missiles etc.
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Now spekaing from a purly FS universe perspective, there is no room or need for a new class of ship either between cruisers and corvetts or between corvetts and destroyers.

The only vessel to have come as an "inbetween" has been the Iceni.  Now I believe that the Deimos is an excellent warship but is under armed as far as anti cap ship capabilities go, for its class.

It should have had at least one bf green on each side, while the destroyers take on the role of haveing all bfgreens about 5 of them.  It seems to me that this is how the Hecate should have been.  If you look at the 5 beams on the Hecate you notice that they are all the same size and look exactly the same, yet they dont fire the same type of beam.  What each beam fires varies from mission to mission reguardless of what the tables say.  It seems that big V made some compromises for the ease in making missions, thus resulting in a lack of any standerdnization in weaponry (ex. in the mission where you first see the Colossus, the Deimos corvett has a bfgreen on the top of it that fires at the Colossus).  The same should go for the Orion which should have 2 bfgreen on each side and one under the chin.  Yet in some missions we see it with 3 bfgreens on each side and one under the chin.

The whole point being that in reality there would be standereds laid down, and that the need for them in this game is readily apparent.  Deimos should have a bfgreen or 2, which would allow it to play its role.  The need for frigates seems moot, because their role is taken up by other classes.  The upgunned Deimos would be the perfect middle between a cruiser and a destroyer eliminating the need for any other "inbetweens."

 
well there is one class pure Battleship no wasteful hangar bays all weapons armed to the theeths...

the only thing thta could go up against it would be other capships it would have superior AA compared to the destroyer carrier hybrids...
Bah who needeed the Colossus when all we needed was 30 Fenrises

 

Offline Anubis

  • 23
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1)I dont think so Starfox because you see even if corvettes are somewhat underguned  but they lack the bigger fighterbay bigger armour that a frigatte could provide and not to methion that  a frigatte has more guns than a corvette it will alwais have more guns than a corvette (in fs ship terminologi).The Iceni was the first of its kind and it wasnt that well armed or designed but it could still pose a threat to a destroyer while a corvette i doubt could fill this role.
2)Mi idea of the Fs frigatte is that ity is a ship bigger than a corvette (max2km the largest ) with at least 2BG and several ter/vas/shi slash AAAfbeams flak the works .
Basicly a frigatte is supose to bring a lot of firepower where you need it fast(more firepower than a corvette and less than a destroyer). For example if you need more firepower than a cxorvette could bring in one place you would get maibe 2 corvettes maibe a destroyer which is much more expensive than a corvette if you have to replace it (in case it goes down ) while a frigatte is cheaper.A frigatte could deal with 2 shivan corvettes maibe even 3 if it has Alpha 1 but 2 corvettes could not deal with them not even 3/2 the only other existing ship in Fs that could fill this role is a destroyer.
I believe i made mi self understud even if its a long thread!:D
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If you build a vessel with the specifications you mentioned, namely that it be 2km max, with 2 BG and all the anti air it would need, and give it a fighterbay, then you would have a vessel that is slightly weaker than a destroyer.  Remember that an Orion is 2.1km in length.

By upgunning a corvette and even enlarging it a bit, then you will have a vessel that will provide a serious threat to enemy destroyers, and fullfill all the requierments that you laid out for a frigate, except for the fighterbay.

Now if you want a vessel that is smaller than a destroyer, but has a fighterbay, then you could do something like the Moloch, and you could even enlarge it to have grater capacity.  A vessel like that would have less firepower, but have a fighterbay thus providing fighter and bomber support.  SUch a vessel could be called a frigate, and become an invaluable support weapon and well as a strike weapon, thus fullfilling the needs without commiting a destroyer.

However, if you want a vessel that has big guns, with all the other various defensive weapons it would need, and have a fighterbay worth mentioning, then you would have to enlarge the vessel to the point where it is almost a destroyer, thus defeating the purpose.

The best solution I think if to upgun the current corvetts with 2bg, and enlarge them alittle for additional armor and fire power.  At the same time build a new type of vessel, that is the same size, has less firepower, but has a good size fighter bay.  This vessel could b called a frigate.  By having corvetts and frigates with these specifications, will allow any role to be fulfilled without the commitment of a destroyer, and thus freeing them up for the bigger fish  :)

 

Offline FSW

  • 27
I thought frigates and destroyers were about the same size.

 
In the FS universe thats not the case.  Names for ship classes are very different from real life.

 

Offline EdrickV

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Main Entry: cor·vette
Pronunciation: kor-'vet
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Middle French, probably from Middle Dutch corf, a kind of ship, literally, basket
Date: 1636
1 : a warship ranking in the old sailing navies next below a frigate
2 : a highly maneuverable armed escort ship that is smaller than a destroyer

Main Entry: frig·ate
Pronunciation: 'fri-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Old Italian fregata
Date: 1583
1 : a light boat propelled orig. by oars but later by sails
2 : a square-rigged war vessel intermediate between a corvette and a ship of the line
3 : a warship that is smaller than a destroyer

Main Entry: dread·nought
Pronunciation: 'dred-"not, -"nät
Function: noun
Date: 1806
1 : a warm garment of thick cloth; also : the cloth
2 : [Dreadnought, British battleship] : BATTLESHIP
3 : one that is among the largest or most powerful of its kind

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Offline Liberator

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FS Ship Designations and the mission roles:

Destroyer:  Serves as a mobile command center, a base of fighter operations, and in an emergency situation fire support to conclude engagements quickly.  Due to their large size destroyers do not make good places to be if a battle 'goes south', as they make extremely large targets once their escort has been 'escorted' ;7 .

Corvette:  Primarily serves as a main battle and picket ship, rarely seen in less than pairs.  Corvettes look to become the backbone of future GTVA fleets as they are able to survive almost any engagement.  Non-destroyable by fighters(except the Myrmidon) and is death on wheels:headz:  for bombers due to their slower speed.

Cruiser:  Serves as a disposable source of moderate firepower, usually easily dispatchhed by fighters and bombers(see Aten).  Cruisers usually operate singley or in unmatched pairs, usually with a small escort of fighters.  Cruisers serve to bolster a pilots ego by allowing him/her to destroy a supposedly important enemy(or friendly, if your so inclined) warship.  While not a threat in fleet operations, cruisers excel in Hit and Run operation, where there higher speed allows them to get in deal their damage and get out before the ship guarding it blow it away(unless Alpha 1 is guarding the area:snipe: ).

Fighters/Bombers: the power behind GTVA fleet ops a ship with out a fighter escort is a good as dead.


-----------------------------------

Frigate?: serves as a forward command post, until Central deems the area safe enough to deploy a destroyer, also serves as destroyer escort during fleet engagements by screening fighters and bombers and coordinating fire with the rest of the battle group.

whadd'ya think?  Am I right or wrong?
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Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
FS Ship Designations and the mission roles:

Destroyer:  Serves as a mobile command center, a base of fighter operations, and in an emergency situation fire support to conclude engagements quickly.  Due to their large size destroyers do not make good places to be if a battle 'goes south', as they make extremely large targets once their escort has been 'escorted' ;7 .

Corvette:  Primarily serves as a main battle and picket ship, rarely seen in less than pairs.  Corvettes look to become the backbone of future GTVA fleets as they are able to survive almost any engagement.  Non-destroyable by fighters(except the Myrmidon) and is death on wheels:headz:  for bombers due to their slower speed.

Cruiser:  Serves as a disposable source of moderate firepower, usually easily dispatchhed by fighters and bombers(see Aten).  Cruisers usually operate singley or in unmatched pairs, usually with a small escort of fighters.  Cruisers serve to bolster a pilots ego by allowing him/her to destroy a supposedly important enemy(or friendly, if your so inclined) warship.  While not a threat in fleet operations, cruisers excel in Hit and Run operation, where there higher speed allows them to get in deal their damage and get out before the ship guarding it blow it away(unless Alpha 1 is guarding the area:snipe: ).

Fighters/Bombers: the power behind GTVA fleet ops a ship with out a fighter escort is a good as dead.


-----------------------------------

Frigate?: serves as a forward command post, until Central deems the area safe enough to deploy a destroyer, also serves as destroyer escort during fleet engagements by screening fighters and bombers and coordinating fire with the rest of the battle group.

whadd'ya think?  Am I right or wrong?


I would disagree on a couple of points on each class.

Destroyer:  Being how in the current configurations of the GTVA warships the only ships that have large anti cap ship beams are the destroyers.  This makes them the primary vessel for dishing out fire power, and are used on the front line all the time, not just in emergencies.  The only exception is where the flagship of a fleet is not commited unless in an emergency.

Corvette:  Although they are now the main battle, they are not usually used as a pickett ship, that job usually goes to the cruiser.  Even in main battle, their anti cap abilities are insufficient, especially Deimos.  Which is why I previously said that they would be perfect for the job if they were upgunned a bit.

Cruiser: Lets not forget the more modern cruisers like Aeolus for example, a far cry from Aten  :)  These vessel are good for strike missions and would be the best vessels for destroyer escort as far as AAA firposwer goes, and also as a picket type ship.

Frigate:  Your description of a frigate makes it sound more like a command vessel than a comabt ship and normally command vessels dont act as escorts to destroyers, being how the destroyer is the command ship  :)  and that cruisers would be best for that role.  

The best role for a frigate in the FS univers, I think would be to be a vessel the same size as the corvett, have minimal anticap guns, moderate AAA guns, and a fighterbay.  Combined with the upgunned corvetts this vessel would serve to provide imediate fighter/bomber support, without the use of a destroyer.  Thus allowing for much more flexability in how battle fleets are deployed and saving the destroyers for engaging the larger warships.

 

Offline EdrickV

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Incidently, I think the medical ship may have originally been intended as a frigate. (Just look that the POF's file name!)
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Offline Hippo

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NTF Iceni

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  • F Front, not Frigate :rolleyes:
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    Offline Liberator

    • Poe's Law In Action
    • 210
    How's this:

    While the detroyer remains premier in terms of firepower.  Next generation GTVA corvettes will see a divergence in their design philosphies.  The corvette as a warship class will continue to exist, however its anti-capital capabilites will likely be reduce to almost nothing however, correspondingly the excess reactor capacity will be diverted in to anti-fighter/anti-bomber weapons systems.  The Corvette  class will give birth to the Frigate clss warship that will focus on providing heavy firepower in a space only slightly larger than a Corvette without risking the lives of the many thousands of officers and men aboard a destroyer class vessel.  The first generation Frigate warships will be considerably more vulnerable to fighters/bombers however with proper fleet deployment this is minimal.
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    Offline Anubis

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    I mai be wrong but isnt a corvette in this case a deimos class corvette about 1 km long ship with a small fighter bay.I was talking about a frigatte which should range from about 1.3km tghe smallest to max 2 km the largest whit the bulk of the frigatte ship size to about 1.5-1.7km which is still a lot smaller than a destroyer in this case the Orion i was thinking about the corvettes in a Fs universe 40 years after the capella incident(my unposted yet campaign story) where the Orion Mk3is about 3.1km long and the Hecate Mk2 3.4km long thus making a 2 km long frigatte far smaller than eny other destroyer yet thought up.
    But even in the curent Fs2universe a 1.6 km long ship wich provides a bigger firepower than a corvette a little more fighter/bommber payload and much more armour makung them much more rezistantthen the corvettes ofcourse these ships would have to have new more powerfull engines then the ones curently used...
    Shivans may be the great distroyers of civilizations but the GTVA  will be the destroyers of the shivans.
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    "Shivans here I come..."(angry)

     

    Offline Dranon

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    • 26
    Terran/Vasudan Corvettes do not have fighterbays.  Only the shivan corvette has a fighterbay.

    I see Corvettes as being sort of like Cruisers, but bigger.  Their anti-capship firepower should be increased a little (I just don't like the slash beams at all), or they should make 2 seperate ships, one for anti-capship work, one for anti-fighter/bomber work.

    I see a Frigate as having the firepower of an improved Corvette, better armor/hull, and a fighter bay for some fighter/bombers.  Sort of like a command ship for small task forces and such, or a special exploratory ship, since you never know what you might find when exploring new jump nodes.
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    Fraigate Class Warships
    Quote
    Originally posted by Dranon
    I see Corvettes as being sort of like Cruisers, but bigger.  Their anti-capship firepower should be increased a little (I just don't like the slash beams at all), or they should make 2 seperate ships, one for anti-capship work, one for anti-fighter/bomber work.


    Two things about FS2 corvettes...

    First, the tech description of the Deimos suggests that its purpose is the same as that of the cruiser, but it's bigger, tougher, and deadlier. A super-cruiser, if you will.

    Second, the Deimos has two BGreens on the front, and a TerSlash on each side. It also has no less than six AAA guns, and six more flak guns. The Hecate has two BGreens on the front, and another BGreen on each side and the rear, for reference. The Deimos isn't that weak...

     

    Offline TheCelestialOne

    • Man of Exceptional Taste
    • 28
    Fraigate Class Warships
    Corvette

    This smaller-class ship is often used as an armed escort for traders and political transports. The Corvette is significantly smaller than a Destroyer, but can use its speed to evade more powerful enemies. This ship was not designed for a full offensive, but it can do an excellent job at distracting the enemy while other ships move into position or escape, or it can be used in flanking attacks against smaller armadas. The Corvette is also the largest class ship that players begin with.

    Frigate

    This ship is usually deployed to keep smaller and faster ships away from the less maneuverable Destroyers. While not as maneuverable as the Corvette, the Frigate has more firepower. Frigates are also useful in flanking and rear attacks against enemy Cruisers otherwise engaged in combat. This is also the first ship which can be fitted with enhancing devices; Since these enhancements can perform a variety of functions, the Frigate is the first class of truly versatile ships.

    Destroyers

    This is a small, relatively fast and well-armed warship often used to support larger vessels. While its armament and enhancing devices are on par with the Frigate, the Destroyer sports a significantly thicker hull. This means that the loss of some speed and agility as compared to the Frigate is made up for by the ability to take a greater amount of damage before incapacitation. This allows a fleet of Destroyers to hold fast against smaller numbers of superior class ships.

    Cruisers

    The Cruiser is large, fast, and moderately armored and gunned. For several reasons, the Cruiser is the first in a more advanced generation of warships, distinguishing it from the smaller vessels: it has room for two additional devices, can hold some of the more powerful devices, and is the smallest ship which requires off-planet construction (though not necessarily in a vacuum.) The Cruiser is the pinnacle of elementary spacecraft development, and is often the largest ship that many evolving races have in their armada. Eventually, though, they are surpassed as the race learns new methods of production.

    Battle Cruisers

    The differences between a Cruiser and the more formidable Battle Cruiser are few but significant. They both have the same number of weapons batteries, but the size of each battery is greatly increased, greatly magnifying the offensive power of each Battle Cruiser. This ship is also lighter and faster that the Battleship, while being able to take much more damage than the average Cruiser. In fact, it is often a perfect combination of the classes above and below it.

    Battleship

    With the capability of destroying an average space station single-handedly, the Battleship forms the foundation of any serious armada. It is the largest, most heavily armed and armored type of ship able to be manufactured within gravity. Its lack of speed demands an array of escorts (Frigate class and smaller) to protect its vulnerable flanks and rear. Of course, such escorts are usually easily provided by anyone with the power to create a fleet of Battleships.

    Dreadnaught

    This ponderous beast is so large and well armed that it can barely be called a ship, and must be built in orbit. This super-vessel is bloated with weaponry and armor, and is a menace for any class of opposing forces. Many an opponent has suddenly realized they were doomed when they saw this powerful creation appear amidst its enemies fleets. Obviously, the Dreadnought requires a full deployment of escorts and support vessels.

    MOBILE FORTRESS

    The Mobile Fortress is so large and so well armed that it can only be classified a space station. This titan is large enough that it is a feature itself, around which an armada can station a defense. It does still retain enough movement though, that it can be brought to bear against any weaponry that your opponent might have which is larger. The Mobile Fortress is basically an excuse to put many, many guns together in one place.

    DOOMSTAR

    The Doom Star, as its name implies, is nearly a celestial body in its own right. The pinnacle of space design for any known sentient species, this behemoth is so large that merely trying to land it on a planet would cause an ecological catastrophe. It is large enough that it generates a large gravitational pull, which would wreak havoc on itself and any planets that it approached. Fitted with a terrifying array of weaponry, the Doom Star can dispense annihilation upon any nearly any enemy. Simply put, anyone who tries attacking a Doom Star deserves what they get.
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    Fraigate Class Warships
    Well im not getting into the naval clasifications argument, but...

    Frigate should not be a common ship in freespace.  The Iceni was custom built as a command ship, and it clearly serves its purpose well.  Its effective in combat since its fast (35m/s) and has enough power to defend against a destroyer, even though its not designed for direct assult.  The only other place i think a frigate sized ship should be used would be as a command ship , for SOC for example.  They arent warships designed for direct engagment, leave that to corvetes.  
    Plus IMHO, only destroyers should have fighter bays, it gives them more importance in their roll of the flagship of a fleet.

    pete

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