[GTD_Bastion]

In FS1, I remember Lucifer being something like an unholy abomination of technology. If the Lucifer showed up to a battle, any battle, the day was lost for Terran and Vasudan forces. It was a ship that you had to "cheat" the system to beat, and attack while it was in sub-space.

But with the Sathanas, it was more or less treated like a particularly dangerous ship. Not the single mos terrifying weapon in the universe (like the Lucifer).

At least, that's how I remembered the Lucifer in FS1. Maybe it's just nostalgia.

[Dark Hunter]

The way I saw it, the Sathanas didn't fill the same role in the story of FS2 as the Lucy did in FS1. You're right, the Lucifer was enough to strike fear into everyone whenever it showed up, and that's what made it awesome.

In FS2, though, the GTVA has progressed far beyond what they were capable of in FS1. The Sathanas wasn't treated like the most terrifying weapon in the universe, because the GTVA knew they had a ship that was at least theoretically capable of matching it, and even if the Colossus failed, they could still gang up on the Sath with several destroyers and kill it. It was, definitely, a very dangerous ship, but they also knew it wasn't invincible, like the Lucy seemed to be.

On the other hand, who else thought "Oh my god, we're screwed." when they heard the words "Over 80 Sathanas juggernauts..." 

Oh hey, before I forget:

[Flipside]

Well, one Juggernaut wasn't so terrifying when we had the Colossus, but I will agree that there wasn't that feeling of 'Oh crud, we are so screwed' when 80 of them showed up.

[Aardwolf]

Don't you mean...

Well, one Juggernaut wasn't so terrifying when we had the Colossus, but I will agree that there was that feeling of 'Oh crud, we are so screwed' when 80 of them showed up.

[Snail]

No, the Sathanes sucked.

[Aardwolf]

But then how is he agreeing? unless i misread the first reply...

[General Battuta]

I saw it as a deconstruction of the supership trope used in Freespace 1.

The GTVA had moved beyond being threatened by a single (cliched) warship. Freespace 2 showed that the Shivans were a menace in more ways than that - unknowable, unpredictable, unstoppable.

[karajorma]

FS2 was telling a different type of story from FS1. FS1 is the old story of an enemy race showing up with an (almost) unkillable ship and being defeated in the end by a small band of brave pilots. To tell that story you have to make the player fear the supership. Although I like the plot line of FS1 a lot that is something of a cliche.

FS2 on the other hand is about the arrogant GTVA believing that they are a match for the Shivans. The GTVA aren't scared of the Sathanas because they honestly believe that they can beat it. They're worried about it destroying the Colossus in the process but they don't doubt they can win. Of course the 80 Sathanases soon prove them wrong on that point.

[General Battuta]

From the very first mission, when the Belisarius refuses to surrender to the Psamtik, all the way through to the tragedy at Capella, FS2 is a story about the dangers of hubris and pride.

[Herra Tohtori]

Ours was a proud people... and always the strongest.

[Flipside]

Don't you mean...

Well, one Juggernaut wasn't so terrifying when we had the Colossus, but I will agree that there was that feeling of 'Oh crud, we are so screwed' when 80 of them showed up.

Nope, what he was saying was that the Sathanas didn't project that aura of fear that the Lucifer created, though Kara has pretty efficiently covered the reasons why, and I agree with him, even when 80 Saths appeared on the scene, I still didn't get the same feeling of helplessness and desperation as I did from FS1.

I think in part it's because, in FS1, we were relying on information we didn't even know was going to work, it certainly hadn't done the Ancients any good, and, at the end of the day, only bought half a victory for the newly hatched GTVA, Vasuda Prime was lost, Earth was cut off etc.

I think it may have been a mistake to leave planetary populations out of Freespace 2, part of the 'horror' of that game was knowing that the Lucifer was moving inexorably towards Earth, and when it got there, it would leave it a blasted ruin, even though the destruction was far more wholesale in FS2, it was in a system that there was no real attachment to for the player, saving the Earth, no matter how clichéd it may be, will always be a strong storyline motivator.

[ThesaurusRex]

An additional reason why the Lucifer seemed more threatening was because it seemed to plow through star systems in a blitzkrieg manner, hitting the capitol systems as fast as they could. Compare this with the Sathanas fleet which seemed to loiter in only a handful of systems.

[Snail]

FS2 was telling a different type of story from FS1. FS1 is the old story of an enemy race showing up with an (almost) unkillable ship and being defeated in the end by a small band of brave pilots. To tell that story you have to make the player fear the supership. Although I like the plot line of FS1 a lot that is something of a cliche.

FS2 on the other hand is about the arrogant GTVA believing that they are a match for the Shivans. The GTVA aren't scared of the Sathanas because they honestly believe that they can beat it. They're worried about it destroying the Colossus in the process but they don't doubt they can win. Of course the 80 Sathanases soon prove them wrong on that point.

You know, that makes more sense than anything I've ever read before on Gen FS.

[Titan]

Sort of on topic, but based on what Kara said, what do you think FS3 would be?

[karajorma]

Well in FS2 only one person realised that the Terrans couldn't be arrogant about the Shivans......

[Snail]

Sort of on topic, but based on what Kara said, what do you think FS3 would be?

Terrans getting ass-kicked.

[Aardwolf]

Well in FS2 only one person realised that the Terrans couldn't be arrogant about the Shivans......

You mean Kappa 3?

[Snail]

I think he means Bosch.

[Spoon]

I think he means Bosch.

I'm pretty sure it's kappa 3 

[Flipside]

Actually, he means Bosch.

Kappa 3 figured it out eventually, but only a few days before everyone else did, Bosch had, through one means or another figured out long before that trying to stop the Shivans through force was an experiment in futility, that was, in my opinion, why he started creating ETAC.