[NGTM-1R]

He's James T. Kirk. Reality warps itself to accomodate him.

[TrashMan]

pretty much all your questions are answered by that prequel comic thinger.

No. That prequel novel only brings more questions and more plot holes.

[Turambar]

- Nero's ships doesn't look like it's romulan or designed for mining. Neither from the inside or the outside

it's a mining ship base which has become a testbed for romulan-adapted borg nanite technology.


- of what use are shrapnel torpedos to a mining ship that had a super-mining beams?
romulan-adapted borg weaponry, looks really cool.


- Supernova threatening the Galaxy?

Was a rapidly expanding anomaly, ate matter and the thing grew extremely rapidly, eating entire systems


- How did Nero remain undetected for 25 years? How did he keep the crew supplied and together? Must have been a hulluva of a commander to pull that feat (seriously, Nero needed more screen time)

supposedly he ended up on rura penthe somehow, i read something about deleted scenes


- Actually, Neros action make no sense at all from the start. He could just go to Rumulus and warn them, thus changing the timeline. Heck, just giving them his ships would have made Romulus insanely powerful.

Yeah, can't explain that one.


- Romulans knew their sun was going nova - why didn't they evacuate or initiate some preventive mesures of their own?

it wasnt their sun, they didn't think it was a threat, and didn't listen to Nero and Spock when they told them to evacuate


- Drilling a hole to the center of the planet? no earthquakes, no lava, no nothing?

the earthquakes (vulcanquakes) were why the federation dispatched ships in the first place


- the ship that Kirks father was on survived for a good couple of minutes when attacked by Neros ships. A vulcan and Federation fleet of newer ships destroyed in 30 seconds?

the captured borg nanites in the Narada's structure adapt to new threats.  Also, Nero most likely wanted the Kelvin alive so he could figure out where the hell he was


- does anyone beside the enterprise crew shoot at the torpedoes?

the Kelvin fired at torpedoes as well

[karajorma]

Yep, it answers them.

Doesn't mean that they are good answers though.

[TrashMan]

- Nero's ships doesn't look like it's romulan or designed for mining. Neither from the inside or the outside

it's a mining ship base which has become a testbed for romulan-adapted borg nanite technology.

Bad explanation. Still doesn't look like it has anything to do with mining.

- of what use are shrapnel torpedos to a mining ship that had a super-mining beams?
romulan-adapted borg weaponry, looks really cool.

Wasn't Nero and the ship captured by Klingons in the prequel novel? or something like that.

- Supernova threatening the Galaxy?
Was a rapidly expanding anomaly, ate matter and the thing grew extremely rapidly, eating entire systems

Badly explained crap, epsecially in the movie.

- Romulans knew their sun was going nova - why didn't they evacuate or initiate some preventive mesures of their own?

it wasnt their sun, they didn't think it was a threat, and didn't listen to Nero and Spock when they told them to evacuate

WTF? It was their Sun! Not evacuating was a move of utter retardation.
Not to mention that is Nero tried to warn them, how the hell can he blame Spock?

- Drilling a hole to the center of the planet? no earthquakes, no lava, no nothing?
the earthquakes (vulcanquakes) were why the federation dispatched ships in the first place

I mean you can see the big gaping hole leading to the center of the planet. You'd expect massive and constant tectonic activity, lava gushing out like a super-volcano of utter doom stuff.

- the ship that Kirks father was on survived for a good couple of minutes when attacked by Neros ships. A vulcan and Federation fleet of newer ships destroyed in 30 seconds?

the captured borg nanites in the Narada's structure adapt to new threats.  Also, Nero most likely wanted the Kelvin alive so he could figure out where the hell he was

Bad explanation.
After Nero found out where he was he attacked the Kelvin and it took several minutes to evacuate the ship. All that time, Nero was shooting to kill.

As I said, I'm only scratching the surface here. The plot of this movie has more holes than swiss cheese.

[karajorma]

WTF? It was their Sun! Not evacuating was a move of utter retardation.

No. It was a nearby star. Not the Romulan star.

Doesn't make the idea any less stupid of course.

[TrashMan]

The movie and the novel clearly have some inconcistencies between themselves.

[General Battuta]

No, they don't - the graphic novel was a prequel meant to tie together the Next Generation era with the movie.

I also thought the movie was full of plot holes, but it's kind of growing on me. And the Narada doesn't look like a mining ship any more because it assimilated a bunch of future Federation and Romulan vessels.

[SpardaSon21]

I still say the movie was filled with plot holes.  And having to read a graphic novel in order to get the plot doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

[TrashMan]

I also thought the movie was full of plot holes, but it's kind of growing on me. And the Narada doesn't look like a mining ship any more because it assimilated a bunch of future Federation and Romulan vessels.

Wait WHEN did the Narada get borg tech and how?

- It's just a mining ship wit ha small crew. To completely overhaul a massive ship, you'd need more than a dozen people. And you need a lot of time and quiet.

- If it got Borg tech before going back in time, it's too stupid. Why would the romulans test borg tech on a mining ship, and not a warship? When would it have time to get new tech if it was supposed to chase Spock immediately? Why would anyone give Nero borg tech in the first place?

- If it got borg tech after going back in time it again makes no sense. Where did it get it? Some secret research base? How did they know if it was a secret research base? How come nobody reacted to an attack on a secret research base? Since when are miners experts on adapting borg technology? How could they possibly stay hidden? Etc..

I told you. Every attempt they make at explaining only makes things worse. They just keep digging hte hole deeper.

[karajorma]

The entire borg tech thing was just stupid anyway. As I said before it's not hard to believe that a lightly armed mining ship could defeat a Federation fleet that has tech over 100 years older than it does.

[General Battuta]

I also thought the movie was full of plot holes, but it's kind of growing on me. And the Narada doesn't look like a mining ship any more because it assimilated a bunch of future Federation and Romulan vessels.

Wait WHEN did the Narada get borg tech and how?

- It's just a mining ship wit ha small crew. To completely overhaul a massive ship, you'd need more than a dozen people. And you need a lot of time and quiet.

- If it got Borg tech before going back in time, it's too stupid. Why would the romulans test borg tech on a mining ship, and not a warship? When would it have time to get new tech if it was supposed to chase Spock immediately? Why would anyone give Nero borg tech in the first place?

- If it got borg tech after going back in time it again makes no sense. Where did it get it? Some secret research base? How did they know if it was a secret research base? How come nobody reacted to an attack on a secret research base? Since when are miners experts on adapting borg technology? How could they possibly stay hidden? Etc..

I told you. Every attempt they make at explaining only makes things worse. They just keep digging hte hole deeper.

Look, I'm totally in agreement with you that the movie's full of holes, but your objections here are dumb, because they're all explained IN THE COMIC.

1. It WAS overhauled by more than a dozen people, 2. at a secret base, where the Borg tech was studied but never intended to be used or tested, 3., it wasn't going to chase Spock immediately, 4., there was a sympathetic Romulan officer at the base, 5, yes, it's a secret research base, and the people at the base were Romulan naval officers sympathetic to Nero.

And yeah, the Borg-tech thing was dumb. The Borg need to go away.

[IceFire]

The movie and the novel clearly have some inconcistencies between themselves.

Actually its pretty bang on...a lot of the questions you're asking are answered in the graphic novel.  You may not like the answers but thats how they explained it.  Frankly its hard to argue a point about exploding anomalous sci-fi star thingy being lame or not...it most likely is but it really doesn't matter.

[TrashMan]

it wasn't going to chase Spock immediately, 4., there was a sympathetic Romulan officer at the base, 5, yes, it's a secret research base, and the people at the base were Romulan naval officers sympathetic to Nero.

God, that IS dumb.
People in a secret military base just agreeing on giving experimental tech to a captain of a mining vessel? No romulan warship to defend that important base?

And how did he ever catch Spock if it didn't go after him immediately? What, was Spock just flying around the Black Hole for a few weeks while Nero's ship gets a re-fit, instead of a returning to Vulcan, where Nero wouldn't be able to get him at all? Wasn't Spocks ship also the fastest ship the Vulcans had? How can a old mining clunker ever catch it?
Etc..

[General Battuta]

Maybe you should read the comic instead of poking nonsensical holes at it. Nero blamed the Federation for the destruction of his homeworld. The base crew (including any defenders) presumably AGREED with him. They were united by their rage at the tragedy.

As for the rest, no idea. Like I said, I agree with you that the movie's full of plot holes. It puzzles me as to why you're calling me dumb when I'm largely on your side.

But I dislike the degree of preconception you're employing here, since you clearly just want the comic to be dumb. Attack the movie and its flaws, not a straw-man.

[karajorma]

He's not going to do that though. This is Trashman we're talking about here!

Now that he's formed the opinion that the movie is full of plot holes there is no way a comic could close them. He doesn't need to read the comic, he doesn't even need to read the earlier posts which summarise the comic, it must also be full of plot holes and he'll defend that assertion to the death!

The fact that someone could believe the comic closes the plot holes but does it in a way that doesn't stop it or the movie from being poor will never occur to him.

[TrashMan]

Maybe you should read the comic instead of poking nonsensical holes at it. Nero blamed the Federation for the destruction of his homeworld. The base crew (including any defenders) presumably AGREED with him. They were united by their rage at the tragedy.

As for the rest, no idea. Like I said, I agree with you that the movie's full of plot holes. It puzzles me as to why you're calling me dumb when I'm largely on your side.

But I dislike the degree of preconception you're employing here, since you clearly just want the comic to be dumb. Attack the movie and its flaws, not a straw-man.

I never called you dumb. Show me where pls.

What I am saying is that explanations given suck. Both in the movie and the comic. They make no sense. People behave like morons constantly.


Also, kara. I'd appreciate if you let go of the primitive character assasination form of debating. It's old, insultive and wrong...but you know that already.

[General Battuta]

I took 'god, that is dumb' more personally than I was supposed to, I think.

But people in the movie and the comic don't behave any more moronically than in any other part of Star Trek. That's not where the problems lie.

[Mefustae]

- Supernova threatening the Galaxy?

Was a rapidly expanding anomaly, ate matter and the thing grew extremely rapidly, eating entire systems

No. Fail. The fact of the matter is that this plot point, indeed the entire driving-force behind the villian's motives, was so utterly stupid that it voids the rest of the movie. I've seen many, many low-IQ events in films. Some astonishingly stupid, logic-defying, reality-voiding attempts at story. But this... this level of mind-****ing debasement of our intelligence, it makes The Core look like credible scientific thesis. The fact that this plot was composed and written by mature, trained adults just makes it sadder. A supernova that will engulf the entire galaxy. They wouldn't have bought that **** in the ****ing 60's, man!! What the ****! And the worst part is that they didn't even try to justify it. Rather than stand by their ****-for-brains idea, they only referred to it in passing as if they were trying to slip it by us. To that, I'd just like to say a nice, big, sloppy **** you to whoever ejaculated this train-wreck of a plot onto the page.

Seriously, how can you even attempt to explain it away? I know you're just playing devil's advocate here, but even Satan would balk at this ****. Not only have you utterly failed to provide any sane reason to give this crowningly moronic plot-point any credence, but I think I hate you now.

[Mikes]

The fact that someone could believe the comic closes the plot holes but does it in a way that doesn't stop it or the movie from being poor will never occur to him.

Frankly my main issue with the movie are the plotholes in the 2nd half of the movie and they have little to do with the comic but rather the internal consistency and logic of the movie itself.

The comic gives some background information to the movie... but overall i would consider it to be quite irrelevant - i.e. not important one way or the other - to what i would consider the "major" problems of the movie's plot.