[colecampbell666]

That has nothing to do with linguistic differences, that is a very clear cut and hard-to-mistake sentence.

[General Battuta]

Concur. We have plenty of members who speak other languages who are perfectly decent, friendly, and reasonable in their expression.

[Mikes]

Please note that people get offended even if you're not criticizing them. At least not directly.

So you suggest we all take the political correct route and be extremely considerate of peoples fragile feelings?

You paid no money for any of the campaigns here.
The creators sacrificed their free time to make their campaigns.

It helps to remember the fact that the authors of these campaigns don't owe you a thing.
Rather you owe them for making the campaigns, or you wouldn't be able to play them in the first place.

As such, i would say a modicum of respect is not too much to ask.
Criticism is important and there is nothing wrong with a bad verdict either....
... but the moment it stops being actual criticism and turns into open and repeated ridicule/bashing, i would actually say it goes too far.

Such behavior is detrimental to a creative community and will likely drive people away who may otherwise have worked to improve their skills with their next attempt.


Just my 2 cent.

[Snail]

Second Great War Part 2 was made ages ago by a guy who's long since gone. I see little harm in mocking his (terrible) work in the same way that it is socially acceptable to say "You most make an update!"

[Mobius]

That has nothing to do with linguistic differences, that is a very clear cut and hard-to-mistake sentence.

Concur. We have plenty of members who speak other languages who are perfectly decent, friendly, and reasonable in their expression.

Are you sure about that? I'm having some serious doubts about it. I don't write posts with the intent of sounding superior or something... but people read them as if I really want to sound superior (and that's weird for me).

There are many HLPers who speak languages other than English but I'm the only active Italian poster here. I'm starting to believe that my Italinglish has serious problems. Well, what can I do? 

Second Great War Part 2 was made ages ago by a guy who's long since gone. I see little harm in mocking his (terrible) work in the same way that it is socially acceptable to say "You most make an update!"

But you do have to admit that those criticisms are oftentimes exaggerate...

[Spoon]

It helps to remember the fact that the authors of these campaigns don't owe you a thing.
Rather you owe them for making the campaigns, or you wouldn't be able to play them in the first place.

That goes both ways though. The creator should be grateful people are actually willing to spend their time playing his creation.
I on the other hand have no reason to thank someone who is "wasting my time with a low quality 'product'" to put it bluntly. 

but the moment it stops being actual criticism and turns into open and repeated ridicule/bashing, i would actually say it goes too far.

Agreed.
That is, if the creator is still around.

[Mobius]

What's the difference between a MIA creator and an active one? We have seen many inactive members returning back to active status (to some degree), so I don't know how you can determine wheter or not a member will be capable of reading harsh critiques...

[Mikes]

That goes both ways though. The creator should be grateful people are actually willing to spend their time playing his creation.
I on the other hand have no reason to thank someone who is "wasting my time with a low quality 'product'" to put it bluntly.  

Am i the only one who finds someone fundamentally wrong with this assertion ?

I mean i "get it". Time is money. So your time has a value and you don't want to have it "wasted".
How devious of people to "waste" their own freetime to offer "free" entertainment that may not conform to whatever standards you may have ...

Frankly... if everyone was thinking like this, i doubt there would be many - if any - people "wasting their own time" to make campaigns in the first place.
No one is forcing you to play anything, and no one is forcing you playing past the first mission if you do not like what you are doing, but if you do play something and keep playing something that is offered for free, the least you can do is offer a little respect to the fact that it took some effort to make.

It really doesn't matter if the creator is "currently" active on the boards either. Suppose they are working on something else after a hiatus only to come back and be confronted with rants and hate ?
Again... there is nothing wrong with stating which campaigns you find good and which you find bad. There is nothing wrong with pointing out specific flaws and/or offering suggestings of improvement...  even stating that you never played past the first/second mission because you completely disliked it. Fine.

But i would contend that rants and bashing are simply misplaced when talking about projects that are created by people who devote their free time to them. It's a destructive and detrimental influence in a creative environment and somewhat of a matter of principle in my eyes.


And as far as 2nd Great War goes... nope i didn't like it and wouldn't recommend it to others as "good entertainment",
but i can still respect the fact that someone spent their free time to make a campaign and offers it for free.
Rants and Anger really only have a place when you are dealing with professionals making games to earn money

That would be my philosophy anyways. Feel free to disagree.

[karajorma]

Are you sure about that? I'm having some serious doubts about it. I don't write posts with the intent of sounding superior or something... but people read them as if I really want to sound superior

You certainly come off as if you're trying to order people around or bully them into your point of view. Your entire first post in this thread is basically you laying down the law about how people should state their opinions. You're not a moderator, you're not an admin, your status on this forum is basically the same as every other regular user when it comes to setting policy. You don't have any right to tell other people on this forum how they should be posting except as a suggestion.

And given that this is the second post today where people have complained about your posting style, I don't think you're in any position to be giving advice on how to post on HLP.

[Mobius]

Mmh. This is a split thread - I did not "create" it. Mines are suggestions. I don't think I'm ordering people to do X, Y or Z.

Experiencing episodes like this is all but nonsensical. Attempts to help/give advice are ignored and the poster gets blamed. What's the logic behind this? Seriously, I try to contribute and I get the exact contrary of what I would like to see.

Here, I'm saying that all those critiques are oftentimes exaggerated. The original campaign creator would surely feel offended should he come back and read all those posts. Now try to tell me what's wrong in saying this.

Same thing for the Wiki issues. All Wiki contributors know of potential conflicts.

[colecampbell666]

Mmh. This is a split thread - I did not "create" it. Mines are suggestions. I don't think I'm ordering people to do X, Y or Z.

Stop straw-manning.

Whether or not you were trying to contribute you were basically just saying "You have to do it this way because I think it's right".

[karajorma]

What does this

More in general, a politically correct person wouldn't say that character-driven campaigns are the best. There are players who prefer pure military experiences, like the ones seen in PI, and their different opinions are to be respected. When people suggest a newcomer to play a CDC, the newcomer needs to be warned about the characteristics of that genre. Please note that most newcomers played the main campaigns, only, so guessing that those players would also like CDCs is not a direct consequence.

have to do with people being harsh about SGWP2?

[Mobius]

Mmh. This is a split thread - I did not "create" it. Mines are suggestions. I don't think I'm ordering people to do X, Y or Z.

Stop straw-manning.

Whether or not you were trying to contribute you were basically just saying "You have to do it this way because I think it's right".

Ok.

Sorry for saying that the kind of critiques we were discussing are exaggerated.

Bye.

What does this

More in general, a politically correct person wouldn't say that character-driven campaigns are the best. There are players who prefer pure military experiences, like the ones seen in PI, and their different opinions are to be respected. When people suggest a newcomer to play a CDC, the newcomer needs to be warned about the characteristics of that genre. Please note that most newcomers played the main campaigns, only, so guessing that those players would also like CDCs is not a direct consequence.

have to do with people being harsh about SGWP2?

How would you know if you don't read the other part of the thread? This is only a split.

Oh, and I don't see anything wrong in guessing that newcomers don't necessarily have to love CDCs.

[colecampbell666]

Why would they care either way. I myself like both (or all) styles if they're well-presented and made.

[karajorma]

How would you know if you don't read the other part of the thread? This is only a split.

I did read the other thread. Why are you making the assumption I didn't? Are you now trying to tell me how to do my job too?

Oh, and I don't see anything wrong in guessing that newcomers don't necessarily have to love CDCs.

There's nothing wrong in guessing that. But when you start telling everyone off for not recommending campaigns in a Mobius approved manner then you've gone too far. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the thread this topic was split from and even if there was it is not your job to wade in and try to sort things out. If you don't like the tone of a thread you click on the report post button. You do NOT attempt to do the job of the admins and moderators for us. If we thought you were capable of doing it, you'd have been promoted to moderator long ago as you certainly spend enough time on this forum to qualify. The fact that you've gone off on a rant about posting style when none of the other mods or admins have had a problem with that thread is a demonstration of exactly why we feel you don't have the good judgement necessary to deal with issues like this one.

You can claim you were only trying to help all you like, but we didn't ask for your help and you're doing a ****ing awful job of giving it. You have plenty of ways you can and have made a contribution to this community, stop trying to insert yourself into a moderating/admin role as the events of this week have quite clearly proved you are piss-poor at it.

[Spoon]

Am i the only one who finds someone fundamentally wrong with this assertion ?

I mean i "get it". Time is money. So your time has a value and you don't want to have it "wasted".
How devious of people to "waste" their own freetime to offer "free" entertainment that may not conform to whatever standards you may have ....

Frankly... if everyone was thinking like this, i doubt there would be many - if any - people "wasting their own time" to make campaigns in the first place.
No one is forcing you to play anything, and no one is forcing you playing past the first mission if you do not like what you are doing, but if you do play something and keep playing something that is offered for free, the least you can do is offer a little respect to the fact that it took some effort to make.

Please. Don't overreact like that.
You are drawing a lot of conclusions based on only one thing I said. Which is, that i'm not going to be praising something that doesn't deserve praise in my opinion. Creators are not going to get respect and praise by default for creating Something. As I said it's a mutual thing. The author makes something, the fans find it good and are grateful he made it. The creator should be grateful to the fans that they spend their time with his creation and liked it.
You are not going to get respect for putting something together that is hardly worth playing. It's that simple. You'll be wasting the time of other people.

What's the difference between a MIA creator and an active one? We have seen many inactive members returning back to active status (to some degree), so I don't know how you can determine wheter or not a member will be capable of reading harsh critiques...

It really doesn't matter if the creator is "currently" active on the boards either. Suppose they are working on something else after a hiatus only to come back and be confronted with rants and hate ?

I really shouldn't have to explain the difference right? When someone is no longer actively visiting a forum odds are he won't be reading the harsh comments direct at him and/or his works. And should he return after all, what is stopping him from defending himself?
I'm not promoting flaming or anything here. I just don't like that political correct BS where you have to sugarcoat every word and keep check of everyone's feelings on the matter. When something sucks, i'll tell you it sucks and why it does so. If something is good, i'll tell you it's good. The ball is then in your corner, up to you what you want to do with those comments. That way you'll keep a good and honest atmosphere. People should stop being so oversenstive. 

[General Battuta]

Mobius, this thread was split in order to isolate a perfectly productive thread from your bossy derailing.

So, yes, you did create it.

[colecampbell666]

Mobius, I think you may do well with some time off. You're probably not in the best of moods coming out of an ordeal as you have, and there are many inflamed egos (yours included) bouncing around. Take a week, and chill. Come back with a fresh outlook and an open mind.

[Rhymes]

Agreed.  HLP is not the best place to be with a short temper; you'll usually get into something you regret later.  Take a break from the main community to cool your head. 

[mxlm]

You're probably not in the best of moods coming out of an ordeal as you have, and there are many inflamed egos (yours included) bouncing around.

If I were Mobius, the first part of this sentence would probably make me very, very angry.

But I dunno, maybe that's just me. *shrug*