[Herra Tohtori]

I want to add to this that it helps to be cautious about using yaw for turns of more than 90 degrees.

Yaw in Freespace for some reason doesn't seem to result in a flat turn, but it has a slow roll in there as well. If you're going to use yaw for a turn of more than a few degrees then you might have to compensate for this.

Yes, there's a roll constant defined on the ship tables that does that. It's just part of FS2's flight mechanics.

You can counter it fairly easily with your roll control; just apply a bit of counter-roll when you use yaw to turn, in case you want the ship to actually turn sideways.

[paul1290]

Part 3: Basic Interception

It may be good to take a moment and re-read Chapter 1 Part 5: Interception, as this will expand upon that interception method.

Here I will list a few basic interception methods and tactics you can use with multiple ships. These are relatively simple and you've may have used these in some form before, but they form the basis for more sophisticated maneuvers that I'll get into in the next part. Keep in mind that these tactics are meant to be used when first approaching your enemy, not when you are already engaged in a dogfight.

For this I will describe these as if you have two ships, as it is the easiest way to explain them and most of these will be easy to expand to use more than two ships anyway.

Single-side offset:
To be perfectly honest, this tactic is pretty basic and is usually pretty useless in Freespace if you can do better, but I include it because it is still better than straight up flying at the opposing ship and a few more complex tactics are based on this. Basically both you and your wingman perform an interception around the same side along only slightly different curves in an attempt to close your aspect. That's all there is to it, it's little more a basic interception except with more than one ship. This tactic may be useful in situations where you can't afford to seperate from one another for some reason, but in most other cases you can do better than this.

Trail:
This basically consists of having your squad forming trail behind one another so that you are all different distances from your opponents then flying into them for a fight. The idea behind this is that by being at different distances you will take different paths to your opponents as soon as you come into range for a turning fight. By doing this you ensure that most of the opposing ships will have at least one of your ships shooting at them from behind. This is relatively simple, but it is good for when time constraints or other factors prevent you from setting up a more elaborate interception.

Bracket:
This is basically two interceptions coming at opposing directions. To put it simply this means if you have two ships, one will perform an interception around the "right" side and one will do one around the "left" side. The idea behind this is the opposing ship or ships go after one of you, then the other will have a better shot. If there are equal number of ships on both sides, then this will help isolate different opponents for each ship and spread out the threat more evenly among your wingmen. If you have more than two ships then you can add more interceptions "above" and "below" as well for added effectiveness.

Drag:
Not a complete interception method by itself, but a tactic that will be used in combination with others. Dragging is the act of intentionally going on the defensive and acting as a target in order to "drag" an opposing ship into an easy shot for another friendly ship.



In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to explain the next part, as it's going to be very difficult without some form of visual aid. Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

[Herra Tohtori]

In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to explain the next part, as it's going to be very difficult without some form of visual aid. Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

Take screenshots from FRESD2_Open, then add arrows and text if necessary in an image editing program?

[QuantumDelta]

FRAPs + Youtube is your friend.

[paul1290]

In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out how the heck I'm going to explain the next part, as it's going to be very difficult without some form of visual aid. Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

Take screenshots from FRESD2_Open, then add arrows and text if necessary in an image editing program?

 

Now why did I not think of that?

This works, very well. I'll probably do this.

FRAPs + Youtube is your friend.

If I do video I'll probably add it much later.

[paul1290]

Part 4: Advanced Interception

These are a few more sophisticated examples that I seperate from the rest because require a tad more coordination to do properly.

Not that distances in illustrations are NOT to scale, and ships should be much farther apart then they are shown.

Single Side Offset into Bracket:
A far more effective variation of the Single-Side Offset. It starts with a normal single side offset. Just before coming into primary weapon range the outside wingman turns hard and passes behind the inside wingman and circles to the other side, converting the single-side offset into a bracket/pincer at the last second. Timing is important, as the outside wingman has make his turn late enough to make his move effective but not so late that the enemy can simply gun him down as goes to the other side. Again, ideally this is done just before coming into range of the opponent's primaries. This method is useful in cases where a normal bracket is too predictable or easily countered.



Bracket with Drag:
This interception technique is good for getting easy kills against inferior numbers of ships. Here you have one pilot setting up an easy kill for his wingman. Starting with a normal bracket, the first friendly ship to be attacked breaks off and goes on the defensive while signal his wingman to move in for an easy kill against an already occupied opponent. Keep in mind that breaking off too late can cause problems for the defending ship, as he must allow enough time for his wingman to get a good shot before the opponent does, it is best done just outside of primary weapon range. As soon as the opponent starts firing the defending wingman should reverse his turn, put the opponent on his 3/9 line, and take evasive action to give him a difficult shot, doing a head-on approach if possible



Keep in mind that these are not set ways of doing things, but more sophisticated examples of how the principles explained thus far can be applied. Again, it's much better to get a feel for how the principles are applied rather than memorizing a set of "moves".

I will probably come back to this sections and add more examples.

[Higher Game]

Assuming these are human players, I don't see how the second example would fool too many people. It's hard enough to hit a damn AI that's obviously dodging intentionally.

[paul1290]

Assuming these are human players, I don't see how the second example would fool too many people. It's hard enough to hit a damn AI that's obviously dodging intentionally.

The point isn't to fool or trick anyone, rather you are forcing your opponent to take a certain action. You don't have to fool anyone since you're not giving your opponent a choice in the matter, all his other options are worse.

You're opponent is going to have to pick a target to focus on, and by doing that he's already setting himself up to get shot up. Unfortunately for your opponent, that's the best option to take, and even that is bad.

His other option is to take you both in a turning fight, and that's even worse for him as it makes for an even easier kill for you.

If he chooses to turn away or go vertical, he ends up on the defensive against two craft instead of one, making that the worst possible choice.

Again, this goes back to the importance of not going alone. If you go alone your options are severely limited. In this example, unless your opponent was significantly more skilled than either of you, he was already at a severe disadvantage to start with.

[QuantumDelta]

If he chooses to turn away or go vertical, he ends up on the defensive against two craft instead of one, making that the worst possible choice.

I'm afraid this is untrue for TvT.
Whilst if he flew off in a random direction in a straight line, sure it'd be bad, but for the most part not attacking either craft IS the best choice, for several reasons;
No matter which craft you go after the way you describe you will be in a predictable pursuit curve, and easy pickings for even the greenest of rookie pilots.
If you go for the easy option you have a slight chance of killing the pilot who made it easy for you before the other guy catches up to you.
If you go for the pilot who is slotting in expecting to be behind you the other has to full turn AND head back AND he's probably used a fair bit of his burners already meaning he'll be delayed and this course of action will mitigate some incoming fire.

If you go completely defensive and play the long waiting game, assuming the enemy aren't in ships that can out turn yours, you will eventually find that no matter what they do if you fly well enough, regardless of their skill level they wont be able to hit you easily.
However, you control when you stop this manoeuvre, and you only need to do so for less than a second to deal significant damage in a decently setup ship.
The opponents can level this slightly by taking on the same tactic but that just means that the playingfield is totally level.
Having multiple vs singular isn't always an advantage in TvT either because if you have more targets to shoot at you're likely to pick up more points.

[paul1290]

If you go completely defensive and play the long waiting game, assuming the enemy aren't in ships that can out turn yours, you will eventually find that no matter what they do if you fly well enough, regardless of their skill level they wont be able to hit you easily.
However, you control when you stop this manoeuvre, and you only need to do so for less than a second to deal significant damage in a decently setup ship.

Could you explain this in more detail?

I sort of understand what you're getting at, but I'm not sure why a lone ship would be that difficult to hit if you have a friendly to assist you. I get the feeling we're not picturing the exact same thing.

With that said, if anyone else's experience regarding this scenario matches QuantumDelta's then please speak up.

[QuantumDelta]

With a 2vs1 situation and the solo pilot flying aggressive-evasive the pair of pilots only have two choices.

A) They can both chase this pilot and try to out turn him (situation basically turns into almost the exact same as a 1on1, but it's a 1on1+1on1, if that makes sense).
B) They can have one pilot chase and the second one go out to range and try to either missile spam or pin the solo pilot with morning star.


B doesn't work very often - especially in skilled combat.
A almost completely balances the sides.


There IS a third option but it's a terrible habit that people shouldn't get into (both ships parking at about 200-300m apart and sitting at zero speed doing nothing other than turning toward their (solo) opponent, this makes getting any kill shots hard, but it makes it virtually impossible, even for a VASTLY more skilled (solo) opponent to get shot time to kill either one of you), it's also considered somewhat unsporting.

Also, if a pilot is vastly more skilled than two of you and you are sat at zero speed they will simply resort to squeezing off shots during their turning arch at either of you, and eventually they'll kill you without ever having stopped turning.

But yea, as long as you're not in a pursuit curve you're very hard to hit and kill.
If you're not in a pursuit curve the options of your opponents are limited (it turns into a waiting game, to try and pounce on you when you stop turning to kill one of them, but if you do that quickly enough even a skilled pilot can sometimes have trouble catching that moment and taking advantage).

My post isn't a slight on your thread btw, up until now I've agreed with most of it, but now you're starting to encroach on the area that I used to teach people as prep for squadwars, and I felt it somewhat important to throw in that in any 1vX environment pursuit curves is always the absolute worst option you can pick.

[paul1290]

Ok, sorry for the long wait and sorry again for not really having anything to add, yet. I've just be pre-occupied with other things and I haven't added anything to this for a long while, but just so you know its not dead (yet).

With a 2vs1 situation and the solo pilot flying aggressive-evasive the pair of pilots only have two choices.

A) They can both chase this pilot and try to out turn him (situation basically turns into almost the exact same as a 1on1, but it's a 1on1+1on1, if that makes sense).
B) They can have one pilot chase and the second one go out to range and try to either missile spam or pin the solo pilot with morning star.


B doesn't work very often - especially in skilled combat.
A almost completely balances the sides.


There IS a third option but it's a terrible habit that people shouldn't get into (both ships parking at about 200-300m apart and sitting at zero speed doing nothing other than turning toward their (solo) opponent, this makes getting any kill shots hard, but it makes it virtually impossible, even for a VASTLY more skilled (solo) opponent to get shot time to kill either one of you), it's also considered somewhat unsporting.

Also, if a pilot is vastly more skilled than two of you and you are sat at zero speed they will simply resort to squeezing off shots during their turning arch at either of you, and eventually they'll kill you without ever having stopped turning.

But yea, as long as you're not in a pursuit curve you're very hard to hit and kill.
If you're not in a pursuit curve the options of your opponents are limited (it turns into a waiting game, to try and pounce on you when you stop turning to kill one of them, but if you do that quickly enough even a skilled pilot can sometimes have trouble catching that moment and taking advantage).

My post isn't a slight on your thread btw, up until now I've agreed with most of it, but now you're starting to encroach on the area that I used to teach people as prep for squadwars, and I felt it somewhat important to throw in that in any 1vX environment pursuit curves is always the absolute worst option you can pick.

Thanks, this helps clear up a lot of things.

In any case, what I'm seeing is that the root of the problem lies in the fact that it's hard to hit ships that aren't actively attacking anything or currently engaged in any sort of activity that restricts their maneuvers, no doubt due to the small turn radius of ships and low velocity of projectiles in Freespace.

Through a combination of shields and maneuverability, the ability of ships in Freespace to protect themselves is almost as good as their ability to attack each other. This is probabably the main difference between dogfighting in Freespace and dogfighting in a flight sim, where your first move will almost always make or break you. Honestly this is a good thing since it is much better for pace of the game, many people wouldn't find it fun to have all their battles decided by the first move and with virtually no chance of recovery.

I will try to address this problem as it applies to more than one ship against a single opponent in the next section when I get the chance, which might be a while depending on a lot of things.



Anyway, the guide isn't dead yet and I still read this thread even if I'm not actively posting, so as always any suggestions are welcome.


 

[QuantumDelta]

Well there's still a lot you could cover if you wanted to move into multiplayer tactics, like team vs team and dogfight techniques, as well as even - coop specialisation, amongst a bunch of other stuff.

[Aardwolf]

Wow, I somehow managed to neglect this thread for waaaaay too long. Nice guide. A few grammar/spelling errors in places, though.

[Thaeris]

If someone would like to proofread/revise the thread (probably the original author, Paul), this would make a great addition to the Wiki.