[TrashMan]

I'm amazed no one brought this up. Politics is usually such a hot topic
So?

Frankly, I agree with the Alatojah - even if there was some cheating (and there pretty much always is, in any elections), Ahmadinejad won with more than 11 million votes advantage, so it's not like finding a million freudelent votes would change anything.

[NGTM-1R]

Except for the fact that all 11mil and more were probably fradulent. In fact, the numbers given to both canidates were almost certainly made up. They claim to have counted all the votes from the whole country in about two hours. That's bull**** by any objective standard.

Let's face it: Iran is not a democratic country. The election is a sham. Supreme executive power rests with the Ayatollah, not the President. The only possible method of changing this is revolution.

Which is why there's any hope at all. Iran is place of long memories and long history, and the opposition is not stupid. Strength can be drawn from the institutions of the Revolution, and it is being done so. If nothing else is accomplished by this, it will at least cause great discomfort in the government to see so much reminiscent of the Revolution turned against them.

[Janos]

I'm amazed no one brought this up. Politics is usually such a hot topic
So?

Frankly, I agree with the Alatojah - even if there was some cheating (and there pretty much always is, in any elections), Ahmadinejad won with more than 11 million votes advantage, so it's not like finding a million freudelent votes would change anything.

hmmm what's this ethnic voting thing and why does it look suspicious

[Locutus of Borg]

I find it strange that the margin by which Ahmadinejad won this 'election' changed overnight when he thought that a 3:1 ratio was too unbelievable. If so many people had voted for Ahmadinejad, then there wouldn't be so many people protesting.

Furhtermore, the government wouldn't be trying to stop people from communicating.

- They shot down cellular service
- They have BANNED Twitter

x.x

[Dilmah G]

I hate the country in general. DE-MO-CRA-CY.

[Kosh]

Iran has major issues, for one thing their economy has really been in the tank for a very long time and no one really does anything to change it.

[IronBeer]

I think a lot of the other posters have gotten the issue mostly right, but there's one thing that should be pointed out: the US should absolutely not get involved with Iran. At all. Supporting Ahmadinejad, well, that;s stupid because he most likely hates us, and the opposition will hate us too if they win. And we can't support Mousavi, because that would most likely make the protesters look like puppets of the West and damage the legitimacy of their complaints.

If nothing else, the Iranian government's responses suggest that the opposition party has a real point- the government is quite obviously corrupt, and a lot of people are tired of it.

My 2 cents.

[TrashMan]

Except for the fact that all 11mil and more were probably fradulent. In fact, the numbers given to both canidates were almost certainly made up. They claim to have counted all the votes from the whole country in about two hours. That's bull**** by any objective standard.

Let's face it: Iran is not a democratic country. The election is a sham. Supreme executive power rests with the Ayatollah, not the President. The only possible method of changing this is revolution.

Proof or it didn't happen. That's how it goes. Regardless of how democrati Iran may or may not be, regardless of how much you might hate or like either canditate - if one wins, and oyu can't prove fraud, you deal with it.

[Sushi]

I think a lot of the other posters have gotten the issue mostly right, but there's one thing that should be pointed out: the US should absolutely not get involved with Iran. At all. Supporting Ahmadinejad, well, that;s stupid because he most likely hates us, and the opposition will hate us too if they win. And we can't support Mousavi, because that would most likely make the protesters look like puppets of the West and damage the legitimacy of their complaints.

If nothing else, the Iranian government's responses suggest that the opposition party has a real point- the government is quite obviously corrupt, and a lot of people are tired of it.

My 2 cents.

I agree, with one caveat. I can see the US possibly getting involved, but only after there's already a shooting war (God forbid) and only if such an action would help to restore peace and stability quicker (instead of just making it worse, which is what will happen if we get at all involved now). And if the US does get involved, it would be best if it was done (at least nominally) as a UN action.

EDIT: I sincerely hope that nothing of the sort proves necessary. We've been involved in enough war lately.

[NGTM-1R]

Proof or it didn't happen. That's how it goes. Regardless of how democrati Iran may or may not be, regardless of how much you might hate or like either canditate - if one wins, and oyu can't prove fraud, you deal with it.

Describe unto me a reasonable mechanism for counting eleven million votes in two hours. All such votes are on blank, handwritten cards; all must be checked for voter number and who was voted for, in addition to anything else that may or may not be on them (I have no idea if Iran's presidential election occurs at the same time as any parallel local elections, but this seems unfortunately imminently reasonable).

You cannot. Even if you could, it would not match the election mechanism in Iran, which is small enough they would have to be processing these votes at quicker than one a second to possibly make such a thing work.

And this mechanism we have just described is only for the margin by which the ruling group claims to have won, not even the whole country.

The entire voting system in Iran might as well be designed to be abused, but in this case they did not even make a pretense of a natural vote.

[TrashMan]

And how accurate are your information?
I'm gonna be the devils advocate here - innocent until proven guilty. Period.

B.t.w. - does anyone think that US (or other countries) may already be involved indirectly (backing up the protesters in secret, possibly even starting the whole thing)?

[Flipside]

I've kept away from the topic because it is way, way too easy to imagine the spectre of the West hanging behind the riots, God knows it wouldn't be the first time the West have worked through those routes before.

But then, not every angry public protest in the East is directly the fault of the West, maybe they genuinely have something to be angry about, but in this situation, more than any other, Iran must be seen to be left alone to deal with the problem one way or another.

[Ford Prefect]

I think it's pretty obvious that this election was stolen, given that Ahmadinejad's mishandling of Iran's economy had clearly lost him popular support. In a grander sense, however, it doesn't really matter. The election was merely a catalyst for discontent that was going to ignite sooner or later anyway, and given the nature of Iran's government, I think it's quite healthy.

[Galemp]

Proof or it didn't happen. That's how it goes. Regardless of how democrati Iran may or may not be, regardless of how much you might hate or like either canditate - if one wins, and oyu can't prove fraud, you deal with it.

Well, it's kind of hard to have PROOF when the party making the claims has expelled foreign journalists, cracked down on investigators, banned communications with the outside world, and opened fire on the dissenters. What, exactly, is it they're trying to hide?

[Liberator]

Before this year is out Iran will either be engaged in a massive civil war or a crater(either from they're own bombs or ours)

This is a perfect example of the kind of leaders that want to obliterate the West and replace it with they're own government and the lengths to which they're willing to go.

[Ghostavo]

You cannot. Even if you could, it would not match the election mechanism in Iran, which is small enough they would have to be processing these votes at quicker than one a second to possibly make such a thing work.

With 11 million votes and two hours, you'd have to process about 1528 votes per second! Yeah...

[General Battuta]

Before this year is out Iran will either be engaged in a massive civil war or a crater(either from they're own bombs or ours)

This is a perfect example of the kind of leaders that want to obliterate the West and replace it with they're own government and the lengths to which they're willing to go.

I'm a big supporter of the Iranian protesters, but I have to say - you could say exactly that about America.

"This is a perfect example of the kind of leaders that want to obliterate the Middle East and replace it with their own government and the lengths to which they're willing to go."

The difference being, of course, that we've invaded Middle Eastern countries, and they haven't invaded us...

 

[StarSlayer]

Before this year is out Iran will either be engaged in a massive civil war or a crater(either from they're own bombs or ours)

Really, you totally think the States is ready to go role over another country after Iraq?  The fact that the military is needing to stop loss its personnel multiple times to maintain the forces it needs for its current operations has completely escaped your notice?  Military is going to be years trying to rebuild itself like it did after Nam' and you think were going to merrily go curb stomp Iran in a year?  Wonder how many of you gungho jabronees are willing to give up college to enlist in the Corps to carry out this grand adventure.

[Ford Prefect]

This has nothing to do with obliterating anyone. This is about the fact that Ahmadinejad utterly failed to fulfill the mandate on which he was elected, which was to overhaul the Iranian economy. Instead he ****ed it up even worse, and anyone with half a brain would've told you that this election was going to reflect that. (Anyone not assuming such blatant fraud, that is.) Don't forget that Mousavi has already been the prime minister of Iran, and is hardly what you could call pro-West. The population of Iran is not vehemently anti-West, but their economy is understandably of more immediate concern.

[General Battuta]

Totally agreed.