[peterv]

The correct translation is:

"Thou shalt not murder"

Generally speaking, i wonder why Cristians tend to refer this old testimony's command.
Son of man said :"Let whoever of you is sinless cast the first stone".

[colecampbell666]

I wouldn't know.  I'm not well versed in pre-civilized history, which by my reckoning started about 10000 or so years ago, maybe 12000 and from what I recall there were organized religion that celebrated various wedding ceremonies for a happy couple, most of them paying heed and homage to a god or goddess of fertility that the family would be blessed with many strong sons.

They prayed to the rain, to nature etc, which was the peak of their understanding.

None of that changes the situation in modern American religious society(most of them) frown on homosexuality, and as such shouldn't allow a wedding between two of the same gender.

So gay people being married harms the long term happiness of these people? Does it injure them? Once again, it's about freedom, not about who yells the loudest.

[TESLA]

The correct translation is:

"Thou shalt not murder"

Generally speaking, i wonder why Cristians tend to refer this old testimony's command.
Son of man said :"Let whoever of you is sinless cast the first stone".

Its a good friggin point. "judge not lest ye be judged"


And none of us is sinless. We all make mistakes, errors of judgements, its the human condition

[Flipside]

Always makes me smile when people start dragging out the 'thou shall not murder' translation error and yet go strangely silent when it's pointed out that the word for 'Virgin' used in the New Testament doesn't actually mean Virgin, but means 'Young Woman' instead.

It's like the 'Thou shalt not steal', that apparently only applies to most Christian churches if the other people haven't got stuff you want, and there's no mis-interpretation there.

[TESLA]

Always makes me smile when people start dragging out the 'thou shall not murder' translation error and yet go strangely silent when it's pointed out that the word for 'Virgin' used in the New Testament doesn't actually mean Virgin, but means 'Young Woman' instead.

It's like the 'Thou shalt not steal', that apparently only applies to most Christian churches if the other people haven't got stuff you want, and there's no mis-interpretation there.

People tend to twist and manipulate words to suit their own agendas

[jdjtcagle]

I come to these discussions like a flee on a dog but...

Yes marriage is culturally a religious ceremony and yes some (may even MOST) churches may be against such a union.  That doesn't mean every religion is and who are we to say is right and wrong.  They have every right to perform any ceremony they want to and more power to them, whether they base it on love, religion, or whatever they have the same right as we do to a heterosexual union.  

I can certainly use wisdom and see that the Christian God is against gay marriage.  But the ONLY judge is God.  Therefore treat them as your neighbor and show kindness, respect, and even love.  It hasn't happened but if someone who was gay hit on me, I would decline respectfully and tell them I wasn't gay (Even though I would decline because I'm now married!)

Flipside: It interest me that I have NEVER heard that.  I will definitely look into it.

[Flipside]

Thing is, marriage isn't, strictly speaking, a religious service, the act of holy Matrimony is, which isn't exactly the same. The Ring symbolism goes back to Greek society anyway (read the story of Prometheus and how he was 'bound' to the Earth by Zeus using a band of gold on his finger), and Greek society was quite openly bisexual.

What it seems to me is that the biggest problem is the word 'marriage', gay people care mostly about the rights and protections that marriage provide, straight people don't seem to mind if married gay couples have the same rights as married straight couples.

If that is the case, then this has got to be one of the most pointless, long winded arguments with an obvious solution in history.

@jdj

The following discussion on the word "almah" is based on the "Lexical
Aids to the Old Testament" of the New American Standard Bible, which
is derived from Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Harris,
Archer, Waltke: editors) and Old Testament Word Studies (William
Wilson).

The Hebrew word "almah," which appears in Isaiah 7:14 is thought by
modern lexicographers to be derived not from "alam" (Strong's #5957)
but from the Hebrew root aleph*lamed*mem which means, "to be ripe" and
thus, by extension, implies one who is of marriageable age. In
Classical Greek the word parthenos simply meant "a young woman" or
"girl" and had no specific meaning of virginity. It later acquired the
meaning of "virgin" as we define it in English.

[General Battuta]

Killing is wrong.

You quoted a very badly translated Commandment.

The correct translation is:

"Thou shalt not murder"

So, according to that, says to me the following:
"Killing is distasteful, awful thing, but is ok in certain circumstances."  IE War or Self-Defense or defense of another

What I mean by "I'm gonna call you on it."
There are certain behaviors on a personal level and a governmental level that have shown beyond doubt that they are detrimental to society as a unit.  By "I'm gonna call you on it" I mean that I will call a spade a spade and stand against government policies that support these behaviors.

Oh look, you've learned how to re-interpret religious texts to suit your political views!

No wonder nobody buys religion as a source of moral guidance any more. Someone else out there is doing the same thing you are except he's a Muslim and he's using it to endorse violent jihad, or a Christian attempting to endorse the bombing of abortion clinics.

Flipside's reasonability and jdjtcagle's relative tolerance do make me happy, though.

[Turambar]

Gay people can take a ciivil union and be happy or go back in the closet, marriage is a religious ceremony primarily and most religions frown on homosexuality.  Personally, as long as they don't hit on me I'm fine.

There are certain situations that it should be allowed, but let's be frank, before Roe v Wade, it wasn't illegal.  It just wasn't "On Demand".  It was viewed as the highly dangerous medical procedure with questionable ends that it it.  Now, it's an "On Demand" "right" to have an abortion.  This is an alarming devaluing of human life in my, and many other peoples, opinion.

Most drugs are illegal for a reason.  I assume you mean marijuana when you ask about drugs.  I'll tell you that the concept of marijuana doesn't bother me any more than alcohol does.  The problem is that, unlike alcohol which is a depressant, marijuana isn't a downer, it's a high and after a while people who use it on a regular basis start wondering what's available that is a bigger high, which leads to attempts to obtain much more lethal "highs" including cocaine and heroin.  It is indirectly government's job to protect society from certain ills, because they are either unwilling or unable through lack of education or training to do it for themselves.

1. MY religion doesn't frown on homosexuality in the least. Why is the state picking and choosing whose religion gets to make the rules for everybody else? If the government has no religion, then it should not pick and choose which religious traditions to follow. Duhhhh.......

2. Abortion is significantly less dangerous than carrying a pregnancy to term, even without special health issues going on.

3. Banning abortion is an alarming devaluation of a woman's right to not have her internal organs hijacked. If the government can't force you to donate a kidney to someone in need, then I will not accept that it can force me to donate my uterus to someone in need.

4. "Gateway drug" bull**** is a lie. Very few people smoke pot and then go "wow, might as well snort some coke too!" See, because the government's misinformation strategy is failing. People now know that pot is safer than pretty much anything else. I mean, you can overdose on water, but not on pot.

5. It is NOT the government's job to tell me I can't inject heroin or snort coke or smoke pot. The government would be within its right to force education on people, like it does with tobacco. People get all up in arms about their right to smoke cigarettes in a public place, when at least heroin doesn't get injected into everyone around you when you do it.

*note: this is iamack

[jdjtcagle]

@jdj

The following discussion on the word "almah" is based on the "Lexical
Aids to the Old Testament" of the New American Standard Bible, which
is derived from Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (Harris,
Archer, Waltke: editors) and Old Testament Word Studies (William
Wilson).

The Hebrew word "almah," which appears in Isaiah 7:14 is thought by
modern lexicographers to be derived not from "alam" (Strong's #5957)
but from the Hebrew root aleph*lamed*mem which means, "to be ripe" and
thus, by extension, implies one who is of marriageable age. In
Classical Greek the word parthenos simply meant "a young woman" or
"girl" and had no specific meaning of virginity. It later acquired the
meaning of "virgin" as we define it in English.

Alright, it appears that the Greek Septuagint gospel of Matthew show the fulfillment of the prophecy in Isaiah (7:14) which the word young women (`almah) was changed by Matthew to virgin (parthenos).  That makes sense since the entire point of Matthew was to show the parallels between the Old Testament prophecies and the birth of Christ to convince the Jews.  But that isn't the first time where the gospel writers showed their own interpretation on the Old Testament prophecies or had "double meanings"... it actually happens quite often.  But according to (christian) doctrine it was implicit on the OT prophecies and the Apostles were shown the parallels.  Whether or not that is true is once again a product of faith.  Who knows?

`almah:

1) virgin, young woman
a) of marriageable age
b) maid or newly married

parthenos:

1) a virgin
a) a marriageable maiden
b) a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man
c) one's marriageable daughter

2) a man who has abstained from all uncleanness and whoredom attendant on idolatry, and so has kept his chastity
a) one who has never had intercourse with women

[General Battuta]

Gay people can take a ciivil union and be happy or go back in the closet, marriage is a religious ceremony primarily and most religions frown on homosexuality.  Personally, as long as they don't hit on me I'm fine.

Right, right, separate but equal. Heard it all before, we know why it's bull****. And since homosexuality has a genetic component just like race, you're as awful as the Klan.

Most drugs are illegal for a reason.  I assume you mean marijuana when you ask about drugs.  I'll tell you that the concept of marijuana doesn't bother me any more than alcohol does.  The problem is that, unlike alcohol which is a depressant, marijuana isn't a downer

No, no, no, NO. Marijuana exhibits properties of all four major drug classes (stimulant, depressant, hallucinogen, antipsychotic) and leans towards hallucinogen. By your logic here, heroin is safe because it's an opiate depressant.

I've never done marijuana, mind, so I have no ulterior motive to defend it. But c'mon, this is another error like the Bernanke thing which just makes you look silly.

[Flipside]

Thing is, as Battuta says, it's a greyscale, not a monochrome.

Even with drugs, regardless of their medicinal purpose, you cannot, for example, place Cannabis in the same category as Heroin, that's kind of like saying that a BB-Gun is exactly the same as an Uzi.

An interesting example is someone who takes Viagra on occasion, not because he has sexual problems, but because he enjoys the er.... results that he and his partner experience. Is that recreational drug abuse?

[TESLA]

To be fair there is a lot of evidence currently in circulation by members of the European drugs and scientific institutions that marijuana can lead to slowing down of the mind and create the onset of Psychological disorders.
Not to mention paranoia, damage to the respiratory, reproductive, and immune systems  and and increased risk of cancer (although the last three could easily be achieved through smoking or the inhaling of other products AKA cigs)

Hallucinations just make for an interesting evening, although never mix with beer, will create the mother of all hangovers.

Similar arguments could be made for beer or any alcoholic drink in general such a liver or kidney damage. Dangerous driving and impaired thought.

Some people naturally have very addictive personalities. People are addicted to enough in the world at the moment, there is no need to legally add another item to that market. The ones we have at the moment cost enough on our health services.

[General Battuta]

That doesn't have anything to do with Liberator's argument that it's a stimulant, which is just the opposite of 'slowing'.

[Flipside]

Like all things, anything done in excess is dangerous. When I was a teenager, like most teenagers, I dabbled, but then, that was 20 years ago, there was none of the 'Skunk' or 'Pollen' on the market, which seems to be in a whole different league to the stuff that was around then.

@Battuta: True, cannabis is anything but a stimulant.

[TESLA]

That doesn't have anything to do with Liberator's argument that it's a stimulant, which is just the opposite of 'slowing'.

Never said it was a stimulant. Said it slows ya down.

[General Battuta]

That doesn't have anything to do with Liberator's argument that it's a stimulant, which is just the opposite of 'slowing'.

Never said it was a stimulant. Said it slows ya down.

Um, exactly.

I said your assertion that it slows you down is at odds with LIBERATOR's assertion that it's a stimulant.

I never said you said it was a stimulant.

[TESLA]

That doesn't have anything to do with Liberator's argument that it's a stimulant, which is just the opposite of 'slowing'.

Never said it was a stimulant. Said it slows ya down.

Um, exactly.

I said your assertion that it slows you down is at odds with LIBERATOR's assertion that it's a stimulant.

I never said you said it was a stimulant.

me thinks we have confusion.... here. No worries, 

[peterv]

In Classical Greek the word parthenos simply meant "a young woman" or
"girl" and had no specific meaning of virginity. It later acquired the
meaning of "virgin" as we define it in English.

Not quite right. Athena and Artemis were both virgins and the word used in ancient Greek to describe that was "Parthenos".

[Flipside]

Well, I'm not a linguist, so I couldn't say for certain either way, but I would suspect that a similar mis-interpretation happened there, the Parthenon is a dedication to the 'Maiden Goddess', which seems to hold with your interpretation, however, I suspect the name 'The Parthenon' was an interpretation from when it was believed that was the correct word to use.