Author Topic: MechWarrior Online  (Read 191062 times)

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Offline Spoon

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It really is.  It's an amusing bit of meta-humor.  I've heard some people discussing that the majority of the actual novels themselves are dramatic tri-vids (movies).  It's a completely non-canon supposition, but it was pretty humorous for the duration of the discussion.
The thing with the Somerset Strikers show is that it exists in-Universe. As in, it's treated as a bad cartoon series in the BT universe itself.
Which is a clever way to handle it  :p

And I'd liken the plausibility difference to "This pig has vestigial wings that allow it to glide in a limited sense, or at the very least not crash into the ground at terminal velocity" versus "this pig mother****ing flies, *****es!"
But the "this pig mother****ing flies, *****es!" part doesn't apply to either universes. Both explain why and how
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Scotty

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I'll have to chalk that up to presentation, then, because the most in depth I've seen with regards to how a Gundam works amounts to "It's a Gundam" *shocked gasping*.

Although I feel I should point out I'm mostly comparing the respective Kings of the Field.  BattleMechs versus Amuro's Gundam is honestly significantly different than looking at BattleMechs versus 08th MS Team Gundams.  Which I personally consider a point in BattleTech's favor, since it's internally consistent in that respect (there are no Super Units).

 

Offline Spoon

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I'll have to chalk that up to presentation, then, because the most in depth I've seen with regards to how a Gundam works amounts to "It's a Gundam" *shocked gasping*.
Well duh, what do you want at such a moment? "It's a Gundam!" *shocked gasping* "It's BOWA·XBR-M-79-07G beam rifle, powered by rechargeable energy cap will easily cut through my armor like paper! Maybe if I try to escape... but will the Gundam's 2 x 24000 kg, 4 x 1870 kg rocket thrusters be able to catch if I try?!". I don't think that giving technical information during a 'it's a Gundam!' moment would flow really well in presentation  :p
Battletech does exactly the same thing even: http://youtu.be/orhOvbfyyJw?hd=1&t=1m4s "It's an Atlas!"
All the extra technical information you have to read in other places. And a game is pretty much always going to have more technical information in its presentation than a tv anime
Also there's this: http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Gundam_Crisis I would absolutely love to have something similar for battletech. (and preferable not in a place that requires a day of travelling to get to :p )

Although I feel I should point out I'm mostly comparing the respective Kings of the Field.  BattleMechs versus Amuro's Gundam is honestly significantly different than looking at BattleMechs versus 08th MS Team Gundams.  Which I personally consider a point in BattleTech's favor, since it's internally consistent in that respect (there are no Super Units).
The RX-78-2 gundam was outperformed by the MS-14A Gelgoog by the end of the one year war. What made it such a super trooper was Amuro's piloting skills and newtype bull****.
The RX-178 Gundam Mark II in Gundam Zeta was a testbed for a bunch of technologies and was very rapidily outperformed by mass produced units. The MSZ-006 Zeta Gundam had slightly higher specs than the average mobile suit but was again mostly powered by Kamile's newtype plotpowers which made it such a super trooper. Cause by that time, the average beam cannon was going to **** up your **** if it managed to hit you.
Gundam has much more rapidly advancing technology than Battletech has. It's more akin to World War II where tanks made in 1940 couldn't stand up to tanks designed in 1944.

Now Gundam Wing and 00 have a serious case of being Kings of the Field super units. Each 'justified' by having some kind of magitech going for them. (In Wing's case that would be the gundanium alloy. Which I guess would be kind of comparable to throwing an M1A3 Abrams tank with depleted uranium armor into WWII and see how much german tank shells it can absorb. And in 00's case its GN particles, which do magic and ****) but during the early UC, a lot of the mobile suits are really down to earth and can only achieve 'flight' in the same way battletech mechs can. Through short jumppack/vernier jumps.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 12:53:38 pm by Spoon »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Mongoose

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Honestly, we all know that the only way this debate ends is by Gurren-Lagann showing up and slinging galaxies around, at which point we all agree that it was extremely silly in the first place. :p

(also super robots FTW)

 

Offline pecenipicek

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Honestly, we all know that the only way this debate ends is by Gurren-Lagann showing up and slinging galaxies around, at which point we all agree that it was extremely silly in the first place. :p

(also super robots FTW)
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Offline NGTM-1R

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his only argument for this so far is that more novels/books/whatever somehow equals more plausibility for a universe.

That's not what I argued.

I said that more background material equals more plausibility because it more closely approximates the total background material you'd need to create something as detailed as reality. (Which is part of the yardstick for how plausible something is.) And also that more background material forces more exploration of the mechanics of things, which makes it more plausible by explanation.

The more I tell stories about something, the more real it seemingly becomes the more is known about it. Because you have more information about it. The more information you have, provided it's not completely contradictory, the more real it seems.

Or you could just spend some time thinking about how one constructs plausible lies and realize that it's essentially the same process (expand and explain), only with guard rails that hold it closer. Either way.

Or you could just consider that eventually somebody's going to have to explain the control systems for their book. And somebody else is going to have to say what you do if you need to take a crap for their book. And somebody else is going to...and so it goes. As the number of works on a particular universe increases, the probability that someone will be forced to plausibly explain a particular thing from the universe approaches one. The probability that someone will have to explain anything exceeds one by the second story.

I'm not really sure how many ways I can explain the basic nature of information accumulation and its relation to effective storytelling, but I'm sure we'll find out.

I've heard some people discussing that the majority of the actual novels themselves are dramatic tri-vids (movies).

Versus the Doyleist notation that some of them were definitely gamed out on the tabletop? Stackpole in particular liked to do it with small-unit battles (Arden Sortek's Victor vs. a Kurita Awesome in one of the Warrior books, Renny Sanderlin's Penetrator and Victor's Daishi vs. Smoke Jaguar Omega Star in Grave Covenant come to mind), while careful examination of most of the novels will be hard-pressed to find outright goofs in damage output vs. armor and structure terms.

I think the closest we actually came to direct violation of the game mechanics pre-Dark Age was in one of the novels which implied a triple engine hit Blackjack that was still operational. (Only to get its faceplate blown in by a suicidal infantry trooper a couple seconds later.)
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline FireSpawn

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I'm going to go out on a wing here, and assume that there have already been several threads about this topic and each one following very similar paths.
If you hit it and it bleeds, you can kill it. If you hit it and it doesn't bleed...You are obviously not hitting hard enough.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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I'm going to go out on a wing here, and assume that there have already been several threads about this topic and each one following very similar paths.

Nope!
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline redsniper

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And somebody else is going to have to say what you do if you need to take a crap for their book.

.... I had never considered this. What DO you do on those long 'mech missions? :nervous:
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

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"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Scotty

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You take care of it before you get in the seat, or you bring along provisions for it. :P

What, you think that every minute of those long missions is spent shooting something?  You'll have breaks to take care of personal hygeine if it's absolutely necessary.

 
Well, there's also some arm exercise for when you get really bored, but I don't think the techs would appreciate cleaning up after that if you leave a mess. :drevil:
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

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[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline redsniper

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What do I have to roll to ambush the enemy lance while their pilots are busy taking a dump?
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Mongoose

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A two, obviously.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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.... I had never considered this. What DO you do on those long 'mech missions? :nervous:

Depends on the design. Assault 'Mechs with roomy cockpits might actually have a small toilet at the back. (We know, for example, the Grand Titan does.) A Stinger or Wasp, however, means you'll probably have to get out of the 'Mech.
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A Feddie Story

 

Offline Spoon

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Bring a beer bottle to pee in  :p
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

  

Offline Thaeris

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Then give the bottle to one of your alcoholic friends:

Victim - "Man, this **** tastes like piss."
Perpetrator - "Doesn't all that stuff taste like piss?"
Victim - "Yeah, sometimes. Hey, want some?"
Perpetrator. "No man. You've earned it."
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Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Bring a beer bottle to pee in  :p

Unless you duct-tape it to yourself, it's probably not going to easy to reach in the Stinger/Wasp, which are so miniscule that the pilot is essentially entombed in one, standing upright, with only part of them in the head.

The old TRO:3025 fluff said that basically the only way out of a Stinger was to eject, which would ruin the 'Mech since the rockets are only a few inches from the reactor shielding, or spend about an hour while the techs unbolt the plates.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline LordMelvin

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Unless you duct-tape it to yourself, it's probably not going to easy to reach in the Stinger/Wasp, which are so miniscule that the pilot is essentially entombed in one, standing upright, with only part of them in the head.

The old TRO:3025 fluff said that basically the only way out of a Stinger was to eject, which would ruin the 'Mech since the rockets are only a few inches from the reactor shielding, or spend about an hour while the techs unbolt the plates.

So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?
Error: ls.rnd.sig.txt not found

 
So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?

Either that, or you're just supposed to let it fly, and call it "supplemental coolant" when your wee hits (or evaporates near) the reactor.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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So then, we're talking about some sort of catheterized flightsuit solution, with either an external release or a small holding tank somewhere in the mech?

Seems optimistic, but possible.

Alternative is that you just wet yourself and let it evaporate to help keep you cool since you're basically only wearing your cooling vest and shorts, plus maybe a t-shirt.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story