[iamzack]

Too bad there's no way to boycott the pharma companies. Not much of a free market when there's no real competition.

[blackhole]

High Max really tries hard to earn his nickname, because my comment was directed towards the original topic of this thread, and had absolutely nothing to do with him. He is totally free to continue ranting though, because its absolutely hilarious.

[Colonol Dekker]

Intuiging much, but don't blam someone for being opinionated. Likewise don't be overly opinonated...........



By the way, i like Pharma. Pharma makes contraception, and consumer medicenes, which are commercially available for convenience. Plastersm (sorry band aids ) ever think of that? Tiny little things that you'd take for granted, like disinfectant?

[iamzack]

Yes, but they're needlessly expensive. If they were legitimately expensive, I would fully support government subsidies to bring costs down for people (like they do for gas).

[Colonol Dekker]

They're not needlessly expensive. The word needlessly is thrown about a bit too much. You need distribution, product developement, brand awareness, packaging and staff costs to consider.... 

This applies even if part of a range too.

[Mr. Vega]

Yes, all that money is necessary for paying for trials that provide favorable outcomes for their products, paying off senators to keep the federal government from negotiating reduced prices, paying for conferences which basically advertise their products to the visiting doctors who are responsible for prescribing their product.....

Yeah, really useful Dekker.

[Colonol Dekker]

Hey, it's not my system... Beats crystals and spiritual healing /Placebo effects though..

[Mr. Vega]

I still can't wrap my head around people who actually think that large companies with a monopoly won't price gouge, that the people who fun Pfizer and such are just these innocent little lambs. I just don't get it.

[Titan]

On the most recent rant from Max: Here here!

I don't see why people keep calling Obama a communist like it's a bad thing... Besides, we elected him goddamit (Friggin New York)

[Liberator]

We call him a Communist like it's a bad thing...because it IS a bad thing.  Switching to a communist style of government/economy would remove most if not all the rights and freedoms that the men and women of this country and been fighting and dying for for 233 years.

That's why we yell about this.

[High Max]

High Max really tries hard to earn his nickname, because my comment was directed towards the original topic of this thread, and had absolutely nothing to do with him. He is totally free to continue ranting though, because its absolutely hilarious.

And I care what you think for what reason? I already made it clear I was not angry. Read my comments after that. I mean, you do think it is hilarious, so don't do it for me, do it for yourself I knew sooner or later you would quote me.

You also deserve the title "angry" since you admitted months ago on that "are humans special?" thread that you are always angry. Probably your belief system that makes you feel depressed and angry and I understand how you feel since when I sometimes think the same way as you and wonder if I have a soul and if I'm more than just what I appear to be, I feel depressed and angry too as a result of that and sometimes feeling that we have no purpose.

If you don't want to be misunderstood or want others to misunderstand what you are replying to, learn to use quote tags. kkkkk??? Or at least be descriptive of what or who you are replying to. I made it obvious that I was replying mostly to your comment, though not replying to you directly. If you don't use a quote tag or you are not descriptive of who you are replying to or at least who's comment you are replying to, then the assumption is you are replying to the person who posted right before you, and I posted right before you. Plus, it's not like I have a reputation to uphold here since I can't lose anything here regardless of what people here think of me and this isn't a high school popularity contest. So tell me, should I really care? The worst thing that could happen is losing my right to post, I guess. Of course I'm not doing anything wrong now.

Now feel free to waste time talking about me and making fun. It's ok. I have no problem.

We call him a Communist like it's a bad thing...because it IS a bad thing.  Switching to a communist style of government/economy would remove most if not all the rights and freedoms that the men and women of this country and been fighting and dying for for 233 years.

Not really, it isn't all or nothing. Vietnam is communist and has much more freedom than North Korea and is not a dictatorship like NK. It isn't so black and white. Giving up a little freedom isn't bad if you get safety and health in return. A balance is key. You can't have the best of everything. It's better to have it pretty good in every area than having the most of one thing at the expense of everything else.

USA's obsession and so called endless war for freedom and it thinking it only needs itself and is the center of it all is why the economy is so bad, at least that is how the economy started its downward spiral. There is no end to a war on terror just like there is no end to a war on crime. Terrorism is nothing new. It's surprising to see USA all obsessed with their fear on terrorism even after all this time since 2001 when terrorism has been around for millenia. Of course USA thought it was invincible. Looks like the terrorists have won since they succeeded in leaving a lasting fearful impression. That is the whole point of terrorism. It doesn't matter if they are all wiped out since they already won, plus new ones will always take their place.

[Mongoose]

Not really, it isn't all or nothing. Vietnam is communist and has much more freedom than North Korea and is not a dictatorship like NK. It isn't so black and white. Giving up a little freedom isn't bad if you get safety and health in return. A balance is key.

Don't make me haul out that Franklin quote.

[Turambar]

do i need to remind you guys that creating a government controlled option in order to get the health insurance companies to act like health insurance companies instead of like thieves through competition is not communism?

it's either this (creating competition to move the solution along in a capitalist-y way) or direct intervention, which would step on a lot more toes and create a lot more whining from republicans.

[iamzack]

So, in all seriousness, what freedoms are you giving up by the government paying for the health care of a few million more individuals than it already is? Because... remember? Taxpayers already pay for most of my health care costs.

You aren't being forced to give up your current health insurance.

If you get a new health insurance plan in the future, it will be through a government-regulated exchange, and you will definitely be able to get insurance, even if you have a pre-existing condition. You'll have a definite minimum level of benefits, and the cost will be held down by the government.

Millions of seniors are already on government health insurance, so there's zero reason/logic behind the "the government will kill old people if it pays for their health care! onoes!!" hysteria.

I feel like I'm missing a point, but I can't think of it at the moment.

[Nuclear1]

The point is this: Liberator is still living in the 1950s, and has a golden shrine to Joseph McCarthy in his house.

Since we're so obsessed with discussing rights, and the apparent deprivation of them by the Obama administration, then let's talk more!

Locke defined as the natural rights for every man, life, liberty, and property.  It is the responsibility of government to secure these rights for its people.

Both fortunately and unfortunately, we live in a culture which is at odds with these natural rights on several accounts.  We have a government depriving its citizens of life through capital punishment, a barbaric and outdated act still justified by the religious right.  We live in a society where the fear of terrorism allows our leaders to suck away our liberties to a fair trial and to not be spied on by our government.

Finally, property--capitalism and the natural rights go perfectly together here.  They both encourage selfishness with our possessions and our earnings.  When the government proposes healthcare reform or other programs to benefit the unfortunate in our country, we twitch and recoil at the idea of the government taking away our earnings and giving it to the poor.

Look what we've become--a ****ing pick and choose society.  We love the parts of the Bible that allow us to barbarically execute criminals, but we refuse to embrace the idea of being good to our neighbor.  We love our right to life, but we're willing to give up our right to liberty in exchange.

Nobody's trying to punish you for being rich or successful--the mere fact we have the patent system should alone attest to that--but when someone is out buying their fifth sports car or third mansion and some people can barely afford to live in the richest nation on Earth, then there's something really ****ing wrong.

I'm absolutely astounded at the people on here who argue passionately that we are a "Christian nation", and then turn around and tear Communism apart as an evil system of government.  I'm not a Soviet or Chinese communist by any measure, but anyone who fails to see the basic tenents of a socialist society in the teachings of Christ is frankly a moron.  People like that aren't Christians--they belong to the Church of America, where God demands a completely unregulated market, the demolition of the IRS, the support of the military-industrial complex, and the total suppression of the liberties of those with differing beliefs.

It's frankly time to evolve, America--we cannot stand by and allow people to die of starvation on American streets, or be unable to afford a badly-needed transplant while others pocket money--sometimes at the cost of those who struggle to survive.  We have got to do better.

I cannot even begin to understand why people like Liberator stll demand the status quo, other than the unpleasant and nightmarish thought that they are completely and totally self-absorbed and so desperate to cling onto every single penny that they're willing to let my best friend go without a kidney transplant just so they can buy a goddamned XBox.

To all who think this way, and still want this system where corporations and the top 1% make a living off of the suffering of the poor and hoarding it all: please realize what you're doing to this country.  And if you refuse to, then ****. YOU.

[High Max]

I just visited Liberator's profile and it looked like it was changed to say 31 years old. I wonder why. I thought I remembered it saying "16" months ago or even a month ago. I'm not saying he acts young and it has nothing to do with anything he says. I was just saying what I noted. It seemed to change.

[Liberator]

...creating a government controlled option...

Which will end up replacing private insurance, which a lot of large companies(like the newly reformed Government Motors) are looking for a way to dump, and get blown completely out of proportion.  Because that is the way of Government programs.

[iamzack]

There's no reason to believe that government health insurance will end up replacing private health insurance. It very well may, if insurance companies decide not to be competitive, though. In which case, well, that's how capitalism works.

[Liberator]

How do you compete with free exactly?

[iamzack]

Based on what I know about the other government health insurance plans, it won't actually be free, just very low copay. It may even have premiums, but the whole thing would be subsidized by the government.

It's not like there's no market for private insurance. Private health insurance companies exist even in countries with free health care for everyone. In the US, there's the added market of everybody that's running around like headless chickens squawking about the government killing old people and forcing abortions and other such nonsense.