[Tomo]

Thank you for insulting my intelligence. I know exactly what it means; however apparently my metaphorical mode of speech goes over your head.

We're talking about engineering details. This requires precision in language.

You've just repeated the phrase "memory footprint exists" many, many times, and never qualified it. This is not metaphorical, it's simply inaccurate.

Plus, you've never said which version(s) are being compared. You'll note that I qualified my post with the version number.

Finally, I brought up a specific comparison. Freespace 2 compared with Freespace Open. The latter demonstrably uses significantly more RAM than the former, but this does not make it bad.

Firefox 3.x is demonstrably visibly faster than IE7.
- Open a pure HTML file of 3MB in size.
- Scroll that page.

In Firefox, the scroll is relatively smooth.
In IE7, the scroll is almost unusable.

(Dell Latitude D830, standard WinXP config. I have not tried this on IE8)

As to the cache to RAM - it's a default setting. You can turn it off it you want to in about:config.

[NGTM-1R]

We're talking about engineering details. This requires precision in language.

No, actually it doesn't, you'd just like it to.

Plus, you've never said which version(s) are being compared. You'll note that I qualified my post with the version number.

Demonstrably false. You're lying through your teeth.

Firefox 3.x is demonstrably visibly faster than IE7.
- Open a pure HTML file of 3MB in size.
- Scroll that page.

Which is, of course, not a useful comparison, as that size is relatively rare.

You also specified the version based on the one I was using and said I wasn't specifying a version.

[S-99]

Even then. It's still not fast like they'll say it is.
Old system, slow hardware, takes 1:30 minutes just to log in after entering the login password.
New system, "new and fast" hardware, STILL takes 1:30 minutes to log into the exact same program.
Like I said. I know from experience, whether or not it's Flash on a commercial system or the Internet, these are PROGRAMS.
Programs that regardless of the newer hardware they slap into the systems to run it, it has NO CHANGE whatsoever.

You need to learn how to diagnose computer problems. It's a shame these days when people buy new computers that they think their internet will go faster because of it and it'll even be the main motivator for buying a new computer, when in fact there will be no internet speed increase with the new computer compaired to the old (making the only reason for buying a new computer moot) as long as the new computer is using the same internet connection the old one used. There's only two things that makes the internet go fast. #1 your connection speed, whether it be dsl or cable internet, you can order slow or fast service from either. #2 your network equipment like your cable modem, router, and NIC (network interface card).

What will a faster processor and more memory do for my internet? This is a bad question. A better question is "What will a faster processor and more memory do for my browser? It'll make those horrendous flash ridden pages run faster and that's about it (because flash is a horse power hungry and memory consuming mofo!). It won't do much more really.

They are Linux.

YAY It has everything absolutely everybody needs to get stuff done.

Even then. It's still not fast like they'll say it is.
Old system, slow hardware, takes 1:30 minutes just to log in after entering the login password.
New system, "new and fast" hardware, STILL takes 1:30 minutes to log into the exact same program.
Like I said. I know from experience, whether or not it's Flash on a commercial system or the Internet, these are PROGRAMS.
Programs that regardless of the newer hardware they slap into the systems to run it, it has NO CHANGE whatsoever.

That just means bottleneck is not client, but networking or server. Or worse, poorly coded programs that can't utilize better hardware.

Fury is correct, but only on the fact that commander zanes network is slow.

[Commander Zane]

Okay, here's one.
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l223/SpootKnight/Other/?action=view&current=Scales.png
10mb .png image.

You need to learn how to diagnose computer problems.

I'm sorry, how else does one exactly diagnose computer problems when the systems act exactly the same despite changes / improvements in hardware?

YAY It has everything absolutely everybody needs to get stuff done.

Then why don't they make things faster like they say they should be?

Fury is correct, but only on the fact that commander zanes network is slow.

Wrong. Most vehicular-mounted systems don't use Internet at all.

Well I borked up that quote chain.
Fixed.

[S-99]

Go reread my earlier post since i was in the editing mood to be more informational. And zane, just re-edit your post period because it makes absolutely no sense. I'm smelling a hint of rewriting what's in quote blocks. Where did vehicles come into play?

I don't get it with the 10mb picture at all. It's 10mb in size and all i have at my disposal is 64kb dsl which means that's going to take me 2 minutes and 40 seconds to load completely and then i just have a 10mb picture that displays fine. No really, go reread my last post.

[Tomo]

We're talking about engineering details. This requires precision in language.

No, actually it doesn't, you'd just like it to.

Yes it does. Your boss tells you "Fix the program".
What do you fix?

How do you know what's broken? Which context?
Precision is required or no work can be done.

Plus, you've never said which version(s) are being compared. You'll note that I qualified my post with the version number.

Demonstrably false. You're lying through your teeth.

If you point out the post in this thread where you mention the Firefox version number, and I will retract the statement and apologise.

I work in support. "Most Recent" doesn't really mean anything, because nobody bothers to check what the most recent version really is.
I've had people phone up saying that they have the 'most recent' version of a piece of software, only to find that by 'most recent' they mean 'I updated last year'

All that aside, I've done some like-for-like testing:
I've opened two Firefox 3.5.2 windows, with YouTube running in one, and four tabs in the other.
Total memory usage of Firefox at this instant is 126,408K

With exactly the same pages in IE 8.0.6001 windows, arranged in the same way (unfortunately this machine does not have IE7), I now have four iexplore processes.
Total memory usage of these iexplore processes is 168,504K

CPU time, with YouTube paused in both Firefox is using between 3% and 10%, IE between 3% and 5%

In other words, if we make the assumption that iexplore is all of IE, then IE8 is using more RAM than Firefox 3.5 but less CPU.

(Incidentally, this is an 8-year old machine with an old Athlon XP processor and 1GB RAM. You can't buy a slower machine these days, although you can get half the RAM.)

Finally, I do apologise for my sarcastic comment about "Memory. Footprint. Exists". My intention was to request an explanation of what you really meant, not to attack you personally. (The phrase is a misquote from a film I saw years ago)

[Commander Zane]

Go reread my earlier post since i was in the editing mood to be more informational. And zane, just re-edit your post period because it makes absolutely no sense. I'm smelling a hint of rewriting what's in quote blocks. Where did vehicles come into play?

I don't get it with the 10mb picture at all. It's 10mb in size and all i have at my disposal is 64kb dsl which means that's going to take me 2 minutes and 40 seconds to load completely and then i just have a 10mb picture that displays fine. No really, go reread my last post.

Um...I know processor power has nothing to do with Internet speeds. I'm talking about client-side programs that rely on and ONLY on what is inside the system that is processing everything. And vehicles come into play because those are the systems that typically do not use Interent, everything inside a building is using Internet. My entire first post in the first place was all about the military's failure to actually make a system run their programs faster by installing hard ware an uncountable number of times faster, I did not mention the Internet not once until you piped in about me talking about networks.

[S-99]

I'm sorry, how else does one exactly diagnose computer problems when the systems act exactly the same despite changes / improvements in hardware?

You just do by examining the problem to find whats happening and exactly what is being affected and find the roots of it so you know what to fix. This way you don't end up taking something completely apart just to be dumbfounded that it was one tiny thing to fix that you could've put your attention too.

Then why don't they make things faster like they say they should be?

It's one of the things i like about linux. It's highly customizable, even to the degree making it run on 15 year old computers with a specific setup.

Wrong. Most vehicular-mounted systems don't use Internet at all.

Who knew that you were talking about vehicular systems?

Well I borked up that quote chain.
Fixed.

Thx for fixing it

Um...I know processor power has nothing to do with Internet speeds. I'm talking about client-side programs that rely on and ONLY on what is inside the system that is processing everything. And vehicles come into play because those are the systems that typically do not use Interent, everything inside a building is using Internet. My entire first post in the first place was all about the military's failure to actually make a system run their programs faster by installing hard ware an uncountable number of times faster, I did not mention the Internet not once until you piped in about me talking about networks.

They do make hardware faster like they say, but does the software you're using take advantage of that horse power for example. Not all of it will, and in many cases you can end up with a multi-processor system with software that only uses one of the processors. Or you'll be playing a game that doesn't take full advantage of your graphics card's abilities as another example.

There's also another thing to consider.

Faster processors are only needed for computing and processing of data. Generally with more bloat like ms office 07 compared to ms office 03. Ms office 03 isn't about eye candy so much as ms office 07 is. Sort of like how vista's unnecessary eye candy aero requires extra processing power and memory. Eye candy is one example of software bloat. There's other forms of bloat out there like vista (you have to do some tweaking to get vista close to eating memory as good as xp).

After that it gets down to how well the source code for a program gets to taking advantage of hardware and new features to be fast rather than just relying on a processor's clock speed. Like i mentioned earlier, not all programs out there will take advantage of the new features faster hardware has to offer. Software is playing catch up with hardware. Reality is getting better day by day with programs that use the new features faster hardware has. What may or may not get better is bloat in programs.

Now for the internet what probably won't get better is bloated content. All browsers out there support the same protocols and standards for the internet for the most part. All browsers more or less do the same thing in the same fashion with some doing the same things through different methods. Which means for browsers, that they need to do more which will make them even more resource hungry than usual. But, for bloated content you've got ad-ridden pages that take a while to load before you get to read your new email, and each ad taking horse power of the cpu and space in memory just to run each and every single one, After that flash on the internet which isn't always bloat, this depends on the site that's using it and how they're using it. Streaming audio, apps that must call home, fancy graphics, and this.

[High Max]

If it's a single home computer and you upgrade your hardware and the program is still the same speed, then the problem must be the way the program was written and the only thing you can do is update to the newest version and hope that fixes it in that case, and if it is slow for all programs even after the hardware upgrade, then you might have an OS that is a decade old that severely limits your hardware's potential or you might have bad drivers for certain things. One likely possibility and the thing that should be checked first is that you need to get rid of malware or cookies or adware. Even the deletion of cache and the stuff in the temp folder under documents and settings can speed up your pc. Remove garbage toolbars and stuff may help. Disk clean up and disk defragmentor are also necessary. You may find that deleting all cookies can make a big difference.

Also disable all addons and see if your internet browser runs faster, if it does, enable an addon and try again and repeat that process until you find the bad addon that slows the browser down. then dsiable it or remove it, if possible. sometimes unnecessary registry entries can cause slowdown. In that case, get a trusted registry cleaner or reformat the hard drive, or better yet, get a new hard drive and then start from scratch. Some file fragments or remnents seem to remain even if you do a complete reformat.

Try all this and then see if it fixes the problem with speed, but only buy certain hardware or reformat as a last resort. No use doing that if it is a simple and easy problem to fix.

[S-99]

  Thx for recapping what i said. Had you not tossed in anything about general windows maintenance, then i could've gotten you with plagiarism.

[High Max]

Well I didn't want to read all that in detail, but I skimmed a little.

I felt like saying something yesterday about a spyware I got that was very bad about a month ago, but I was waiting until someone else posted to make it so more attention will be directed to the following instead of putting it in the previous post and having a post that was too big. So I put it in an MS Word doc just incase I would post it here. It might help those who need the help since most people probably won't know how to get rid of it. I'm modify the following text as I read through what I typed to make it easier to understand:

About 2 months ago, I got severe spyware that wouldn't even let me open task manager up for more than a split second (the first thing I tried) or any programs to remove the spyware program, including msconfig startup. I couldn't open any program really. It was installing a lot of spyware whenever I booted up and it started doing that right after my computer reacted badly to the spyware, if I remember correctly (showed a little installation wizard bar that you cannot stop normally). I immediately disconnected from the internet in "internet and connections". It also changed my wallpaper to say "you have been infected with spyware and we will get all your information” or some fear tactic garbage. It was some false anti-malware thing posing as an anti-malware program (I don't know how I got it). Probably from opening a page and that dialog box popping up saying "your computer may be infected with spyware" and it asked you to install and I think I clicked "no" or I most likely ended the process via task manager and it still put it on my system about a few days later.

Maybe it came from the program "Spybot Search and Destroy" after uninstalling it. It wouldn't even let me boot into safe mode. My only option after trying other things was to try task manager (though it wouldn't let me open it for long and it closed after a split second of displaying it each time) to get about a half a second glimpse each time I typed Ctrl+Alt+Delete to bring it up and did that many times so I could see the strange process name of the malware and keep viewing it as I was typing it up character by character into the Windows search box. I found it through there but couldn't delete it, but I could cut and paste it to my desktop and thus that disabled it after reboot. Then I had to delete it and I scanned my pc and malwarebytes found about 44 malware entries after I scanned it. Then I reconnected after I felt it was safe and after I scanned more with another program.

Even then, I later scanned my pc again for more malware and found a couple more. I even went as far as finding and removing registry entries that had the original spyware's name and all other malware names as well, that were found by viewing the quarantine and searching my registry simultaneously. In the registry search, I entered the first few letters of about 5 or 10 different malware names to find more at once since many had the same first few letters in their names. So I searched without having to type up every single malware name.

Next time I entered a website and that bad dialog box popped up, I just immediately restarted my pc and it seems like a safe way to prevent that from installing again since I don’t have real time protection. But in the past, I never been infected like that, even though I saw an odd dialog box like that pop up a few times in the last few years, I think.

I'm sure many people have opened a webpage with a strange dialog box popping up posing as anti-malware and it installs even if you close it. Some web pages seem to have that malicious malware embedded into it.



Conclusion: That is the worst malware you can get, I feel. The average end user would be in big trouble and have so much malware installed that their computer would crash and there would be nothing they could do except do a complete reformat from DOS, if they know how, and couldn't back up any of their files easily, let alone know how to stop it and fix it. I was lucky that I could figure out what to do and I stayed calm.

[colecampbell666]

My suggestion: Get a good antispy like Spybot. And when one of those dialogue boxes comes up you don't even have to click "OK" for it to download, sometimes they're rigged so that any click or any button does that. Alt+F4.

[qazwsx]

There is no such thing as too many tabs
http://imagebin.org/60738
 

[FSW]

Firefox seems to use more memory than it ought to, especially after it has been running for some time. At the moment, I have just one tab open, to this forum, and it's taking up over 100MB. I'm running two extensions, which are the only reason I haven't already switched to another browser.

[jr2]

Firefox seems to use more memory than it ought to, especially after it has been running for some time. At the moment, I have just one tab open, to this forum, and it's taking up over 100MB. I'm running two extensions, which are the only reason I haven't already switched to another browser.

Hmm.  Since FF caches to memory, that makes some sort of sense... try clearing your cache or disabling it in about:config, then look at the memory. Instructions